19 May 2005

CONSERVATIVE OR OPEN

Are you bent mutaharira or muhafza? Not sure what does this question mean? Not even sure if I am this or that? I don't really know. I am extremely both. Or is it both extremely?! Well, I am extremely conservative and extremely open, both at the same time. Funny! Not really, but confusing actually, to me and to others. And with confusion comes sadness, and with sadness comes the urge to just disappear.

Last night, I returned to M.'s apartment around 2 in the morning. I was attending this gathering at A.'s place. I was supposed to leave with M. but the conversation got more and more interesting and I just decided to stay till the end of the conversation. No sooner had it started than it glided to talking about religion in general, morals, human nature, and all these juicy stuff that I love tremendously. Of course, talks about islamic history came was hit upon more than once, critique to hadith, koran gathering, and the like were all touched upon. I don't have a solid opinion towards all these critiques. I mean, I of course doubt a lot of ahadeeth, sometimes would just like them to disappear; fend off any saying that doesn't make sense to me; don't consider it an authority saying and surrender to it. I just approach what we call 'our most used, customized, tailored version of islam' with great doubt and sarcasm.

Many people, including my mother, ad infinitum warns me of my attitude. On the other hand, I fast Mondays and Thursdays. At some point, I fasted on one and one basis, and now I am getting my fajr prayer in place. Regardless that, I do LOVE hear critiques about islamic history and islamic ideas. I don't mind sitting with people who just say the worst thing about the prophet using the historical writings to prove their point. I don't necessairly debate, just listen. Say a word here or there. Hardly did I ever defend the Coran, or the prophet. Sometimes I contribute to saying the not so 'religiously' correct incidents. Sometimes I feel guilty sometimes I feel I need to do that. To just destroy the iconized image I have of the prophet and islam. To set islam free from its religious form to becoming a way of life and integration.

My 'relgious' friends (mainly because they are wearing the hijab) calls me 'too much' and would never reach anywhere. My normal friends (religious at heart maybe) call me so religious and approach things in a different way, my doubting friends call me agnostic with a spiritual touch. My mother always asks me why do I enjoy confusing people, especially my brother, when she knows that I am a 'believer'. Believer in what, I always ask? Seriously, believer in what?

There is something about Islamic culture, or arab culture that fears the other. The other not only the other culture but the 'other ideas'. Anything different is wrong, may cause doubt, and thus BAD BAD BAD. We would never understand. We are incapable of understanding so better just obey. If they tell you do this and that, then go ahead, just do it. If they tell you that after doing x and y you should feel Z, then you must feel Z, otherwise you are not doing it right! Stuff like that, most obvious of which is Piligramage. Every single one who came back from doing it 'aha, what a lovely experience. I felt lifted. I feel... I experienced.... I saw..... ' The same story no one says soemthing different. I always listen and smile. No one dares to say that 'well, I felt nothing. It was cool.' No way, this means that he/she didn't do it right, or that God is not happy with him/her and thus didn't give him the experience. I actually heard this once on T.V. Something like, 'those who go to Mecca and come back feeling nothing their hearts are sealed ... they need to do extra effort to remove the dirt on it.' Not the exact wordings of course, but something around these lines.

I actually had a great friend. He went to Mecca for piligramage and after he was done with the rituals, he put on his shorts and a TShirt and walked to dos some shopping and then passed by a friend of his. Upon seeing him my friend was like, 'What's up man. Eih akhbar el donya?' His friend just looked to him in surprise and told him, 'Donya? Eih akhbar el Akhra?' My friend's logic was, 'I have done the rituals. Enjoy it. And now back to my normal life. What's wrong with that? I got the experience in my heart.' Well, I agree. I mean, during the prophet's time they finish piligramage and back to their business. They just live their piligramage in the practical life. Carry it through their way of life and not just staple it to the white jalabya, beard, head-cover. BACK TO BUSINESS. The trick is how to do a piligramage at every moment of your life, not only when you go to Mecca.

To be more honest, I don't even strongly believe that Mecca is the only place to do piligramage to. It is just a place. Sacred? Yes. Has this energy? Yes. Chosen place by god where His throne is above? Well, maybe? But I see it as very limiting actually. It just assumes that God sees the world in a horizontal sphere as we do. To see America He has to look right, and to see India he has to rotate... What on earth is that? Any place is Mecca. Any time is Allah. Every moment is Allah.

Whatever!

51 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

that if there are 'time. place. moment' in the first place.

5/19/2005 12:36:00 pm  
Blogger Mohamed said...

Won't comment about the first part about you (and about our culture). Its too interesting, and correct.

But regarding the Hajj, most people I've encountered do not claim that there is anything spiritual in it. On the contrary, they admit that alHajj mashakka. There is nothing spiritual in the tough crowd with people shoving and pushing, being afraid of getting stepped over, of dehydrating, or from walking endlessly. They claim however that if you really want to enjoy the spirituality and lifting of your soul, etc., you should go for a 'Umra.

5/19/2005 12:48:00 pm  
Anonymous haal said...

but this is my exact point, to be spiritual in the midst of the 'tough crowd with people shoving and pushing, being afraid of getting stepped over, of dehydrating, or from walking endlessly', because this is life.

What is the first paragraph that you won't comment on? Why not too!

5/19/2005 01:02:00 pm  
Blogger Mohamed said...

I thought you said that people think of Hajj as a very spiritual ritual, which it mostly isn't I believe. But I do agree that you don't have to be in a certain place to be spiritual and think of God. But that's not what Hajj is for though (its not necessarily the place where you'll be closer to God), is it?

I was talking about the first part (not paragraph) of the post. Its just interesting I guess. I agree that our society only sees one 'right' path, in everything, not just religion (and this is one of our major problems I believe). One way to view things and one way to do things, and one way of thinking, and anyone who thinks or acts differently are weirdos, disrespectful, kafir, or you name it. We don't question whether we're right or wrong, whether the way we do things and used to do them could possibly be fallible. As for you (if i may), maybe you are a "believer" who's always questioning, so does that make you a conservative or a liberal (is open = motaharrera or something else!?), or a mix?

Regarding "unsuitable hadeeths", there are many hadeeths that are used today which are made up --that's an admitted fact by the scholars (and that's why there were great efforts to categorize them). But its interesting to me how people like to customize Islam to their liking. I don't like this hadeeth, I won't take it, this aya does not mean that, etc., coming up with a personal version of Islam that satisfies their own liking. Which is fine I guess as long as they keep it to themselves, and don't claim that this is what God meant, a customized religion for that specific person.

5/19/2005 03:17:00 pm  
Anonymous Haal said...

Agree.

Agree.

Agree.

Thank you!

(as for Hajj, you are right, I hear more of these talks about 'umra' more. My father's experience was that he kicked someone in the stomach when doing the rotation because this guy just decided to pray infront of the Abraham's musala or something and risked many people getting trumbled and stepped over. My grandmother she got disgusted from some people with runny noses. Stuff like that. But leave these people alone, they are a funny family. My mom is the only cool/calm one I guess.)

5/19/2005 03:52:00 pm  
Anonymous DNA said...

God must get pretty dizzy if His throne is on top of Mecca.

Why do people 'indulge' in this shit? I guess it shows a shallowness of mind - you can't categorise and say all Arabs/Muslims think like that. All three religions have undergone 'ritualisation' at some point, Islam is the latest. Christians wear crosses, Jews were skull caps, and now Muslims grow beards, wear skull caps, wear short jalabeyas, or niqabs, don't shake hands, use their right hand, recite all sorts of stuff everytime they do something, don't eat this, don't drink that, don't watch this, don't say that. And on and on and on ad nauseum.

What we Arabs/Muslims do more than others because of our poverty, our overpopulation, because of our intellectual famine, is use herd mentality to make decisions. The 'nomadic' instinct of 'anything outside us will do us harm' hasn't faded, and where it wasn't part of popular culture (e.g. Egypt) it's been imported through Wahabism, immigration and a lack of a strong, competing local cultural movement. Why do you think it is that 30, 40 years ago, our mothers used to wear mini-skirts? Why is it that being 'vieled' back then had nothing to do with how religious you were? Gatlena sa7wa ya3ni?

There's science, then there's pseudo-science. There's religion then there's pseudo-religion: dagal. In my opinion, and may God forgive me if I'm wrong, most of the stuff people say and follow is dagal. But that's not the threat. The threat comes from the fact that it is a contagious, malicious form of dagal. Coupled with Arab 'nuclear society', it means those who sit outside the circle of dagal are 'alien and therefore bad.'

Wallaho a3lam.

5/19/2005 06:07:00 pm  
Anonymous haal said...

Can I say, most 'muslims' think like that, or will I be unfair?

Muslims/arabs do more than ohter because they lived most of their lives in fear. Fear of some kind of danger be it invasion, colonization, disaster,....etc. When God finally arrives it was easy for them to iconize this fear and throw it on the figure of God. So anything happens to them is from god as a punishment. Why? Well because you are bad bad bad. And even if you had been good muslim, it is ibtila'. So there is no escape. Whether you are good or bad, you can't escape the a disaster.

what I don't like about our version of islam, and I say it always is that they reduce religion to a bunch of rituals, and 2)treat us as if we are nasty little creatures who need discipline all the time otherwise we will be pure animals. I simple disagree. Once you are treated as an animal, you will act as one. And this is why the hijab and the silly talk about the first nazra is on man the second is on woman, the third on your mama...... oh please dont get me started!!!!

5/20/2005 01:11:00 am  
Blogger Mohamed said...

So I have a question. Is there a point when we would consider wedoo'a for example as a silly ritual, or maybe the physical movement in Salah as a silly ritual, or part of a human created dagal? I mean, when do we draw the line between what is cultural/human made up rituals of putting too much sacredness in a place or an act, and between an order and a requirement by God to praise and connect with Him in the way He sees fit?

5/20/2005 02:14:00 pm  
Anonymous DNA said...

You can't draw the line. I personally don't think that ablution is silly - it seems pretty obvious that you need to be clean to pray. I mean, men and women spend more time grooming themselves for a bloody date than it does to go through 'the act' of wodoo2. But - why should I have to wash my right side first when I'm showering if I plan to pray afterwards? The point is to be clean for prayer, not to ritualise it to a point where it starts losing its original meaning.

To a certain extent, you can't expect everyone to go through that mental process, and - call me an elitist if you wish - not everyone has the ability to rationalise their behavior. There is, of course, the threat of turning religion into a subjective faith, but that is a threat I think God accepts because that is where human will frolics. If we aren't given choices - if we aren't given the will to make bad ones, what's the point of living? I can go on for hours about this - about the existentialist arguments for the presence of a diety, it's attitude towards humans etc...

So, some things will always be ritualised, only because some people will never be able to understand the reasons behind them. Take the physical act of prayer. You could pray sitting down, in your head even (you should if you're incapacitated), but instead, we are told that it should be accompanied with physical movement. Is this a 'silly' ritual? Could be, because essentially it was never mentioned in the Quran, but for me a) I don't see any harm in doing it b) there is the obvious advantage of physical excercise 5 times a day, which is no bad thing and c) I haven't come across or thought of an alternative method of prayer that requires the same amount of mental and physical preparation, which is something obvious for this type of 'congregation.' It could be that - if Islamic jurisprudence was open to 'ijtihad' - some scholars would find viable alternatives that fulfill the initial tenant: remembering God. But until that happens, I personally don't see a point in detracting from or avoiding the act of prayer. Not that I am a regular prayer, but when I do prayer, I do not feel compelled to 'rationalise' the act.

The short version of all of this is: if religion is a divine construct, there must be some level of rigidity because not all humans are created equal, and therefore not all humans can think about their faith in the same way. At the same time, if a religion is to survive for all eternity, if it is God-given and is meant for all, all the time, it must be flexible enough to accomodate the realities of life. To a certain extent, current Islamic jurisprudence thinks it has that: for example, in the act of tayamom (when water is absent) or if a Muslim is travelling. However, those are hang overs from jurisprudence of 700 years ago. Since then, very little has been added, very little taken away. THAT is what I'm objecting to.

The dagal component of Islam comes from what lies outside the realm of jurisprudence - the 'laws' that aren't documented in the Quran and bear no relationship to what I consider the 'spirit' of Islam. Is that a 'subjective' definition of religion. Definitely, and I don't see a problem with that as long as the 'essence' of Islam isn't detracted from. Of course I could be wrong, in which case, hell will hurt and I hope God forgives me.

5/20/2005 04:30:00 pm  
Blogger Mohamed said...

There is one important concept that you might be missing here. We cannot understand the rationale behind every Godly command before we accept it. We can try, and some may be able to rationalize some of the orders, but it doesn't mean its right.

So for the wodoo'a case, you think you know the rationale behind the wodoo'a, but are you right? If you haven't realized that rationale, would you then not perform wodoo'a before prayers? Well, let me question your wodoo'a rationale, and claim that the purpose of wodoo'a is not to be clean before prayers. What you do in wodoo'a would hardly make a person clean, but it is in fact a symbolic ritual. Some can say that it is a symbol, some can claim that putting a few drops of water on your face, arms, and foot (or socks) makes you clean, but God may have a different reason all together.

The point I'm trying to make is what you have said:
"if religion is a divine construct, there must be some level of rigidity because not all humans are created equal, and therefore not all humans can think about their faith in the same way."

5/20/2005 05:31:00 pm  
Anonymous DNA said...

I've heard the 'it's from God so you can't possibly know His motives' argument. I personally don't subscribe to it because there is the question of 'reasonable doubt.' If we're going to doubt the validity of our own understanding of religion because God might have meant differently, why can't we question the validity of religious ritual that isn't explicitly referred to in the Quran? If God thought it was important enough (as important as, say, not eating carrion and pig products), why didn't he mention it in the Quran? Because a lot of Islamic 'ritual' is now based on Sunnah, which is in turn based on hearsay, personally, I think the time to 'block' rationale (because I can't possibly understand God's rationale) has gone.

God explicitly tells us to be clean before commencing prayer (tohoor). I have no way of knowing what tohoor is outside its definition, and outside what people say is the prophet's way of doing it. The rationale is obvious - God said he wants us to be clean. Fahem asdi?

5/20/2005 05:52:00 pm  
Blogger Mohamed said...

I'm not saying that we should block the rationale, but what you might find a reason for, someone else might not, and even your rationale could very well be wrong. So, if everyone follows his/her own individual rationale we end up with a personalized version of the religion --when some rituals are very clear in Islam regardless of why each one of us does it. And as I said earlier, while that maybe okay to many, it shouldn't turn into people claiming that they don't understand a Godly command so it shouldn't be done --especially when there's lack of knowledge among many Muslims. I am saying however that we should indeed try to understand the rationale behind the rituals.

That rationale thing aside. It is quite a deviation to reject the Sunnah, and claim that if it did not exist in the Quran then its not part of our religion and God did not ask for it. I'm afraid that the common consensus is that the Sunnah is part of Islam. God chose prophet Muhammad to be His messenger, to deliver His message, and to teach the people about Allah, how to worship Him, and how to become good Muslims. If God entrusted the Prophet (who is infallible when it comes to the religious matters, but is fallible in the lifely matters), how can we not do so, and reject the prophet's sunnah!!

5/20/2005 09:08:00 pm  
Blogger haal said...

Mohamed, you never answered my old question, 'what is religion', how do you define it.

5/20/2005 11:17:00 pm  
Anonymous DNA said...

Mo - I totally understand your point, and I made it particularly clear that I thought that some level of 'rigidness' was necessary. However, I object to people's insistence that those who deviate from 'rigidness' are 'infidels.' Let God be the judge of that. I guess we agree on that.

As for the prophet - to me, religion IS life. You can't be fallible in one but no the other. I'm not suggesting that the prophet was wrong in any religious respect, all I'm saying is - he was human, he had a mission, and he had an objective. When they expired, he expired (that's why we don't have prophet's now, because Mohammed was the last prophet because the mission ended).

Answer me this hypothetical question, and I'm not being rhetorical. I really want to know your opinion. Why is Sunnah part of Islam? Where does God tell us how important Sunnah would be to us - something that happened after the revelation?

5/21/2005 02:25:00 am  
Blogger Mohamed said...

Haal, I didn't say I'd answer your question, because I don't think I'm capable of answering it. Here's an answer if you're looking for a general one, but I think the definition may differ depending on what religion you're talking about.

DNA, yes we agree on that first paragraph. I'm surprised you're saying that 'religion is life', does this mean that religion is inseparable from politics?

As for your question, I answered it in my previous comment. God chose the prophet to be his messenger and to deliver His message. This is enough to me to say that we should follow the prophet's Sunnah in the 3ebadat specifically. You take the Quran which was delivered to us by the prophet, and you don't accept the prophet's explanation and detailing of it. Sunnah did not happen after the revelation, it was an integral part and in parallel with the revelation.

5/21/2005 08:44:00 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The term 'sunna'of the prophet didnt exist in the form of what we know now except until al-shaf'i time. Before that, there was a number of sunnas, like sunnat abu bakr, umar, al sahaba, ahl al-medina, al-iraq...lots, and all were accepted as part of the sunna. So, when i hear you speak about sunna of the prophet, i just see a vague term that for anti-fitna reasons, was just consolidated to overcome differences.

5/21/2005 10:46:00 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i may add too, that most rituals that exist in islam was not invented by it. It existed so long ago before islam. Islam just came to reinforce it and present it in a different way that, shall we say, moderinize it, customize it, revive it and put it in a different form to suit the people he was addressing. I believe it was circumstantial. Should we do the exact symbolic rituals? Ok if you want, but we should always search for the deeper meanings behind the symbols.
Also, take for instance the problem of abrogation, why would this happen? I mean, if the koran is suiting all conditions,why would there be the need to abrogate some conditions, and replace it with soemthing else. For me, it is an indication of the circumstantiality of the rituals, while the meaning is the same.

5/21/2005 10:52:00 am  
Blogger Mohamed said...

The term 'sunnah' did not exist during the time of the prophet, but the act did. The act of following the prophet and learning from what he was doing and what he said was an integral part of the teachings of Islam. How did muslims know how and how much to pray, wasn't it after alIsra'a walMi3raj?

5/21/2005 12:09:00 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I won't be so sure of this 'integral part of islam' thing, that much. At least, it wasn't there during the early time. If you look beside you while doing the pilgrimage, you will see how different people pray in different ways. Minor differences, yes, could be... but it is an indication of the different styles and the different influences and more so, that there is a definite thing as this is how the prophet did it

My only problem is with the 100% assurance of the ritual how-to-do, the attachment to the outside act.

5/21/2005 12:50:00 pm  
Blogger Mohamed said...

The "100% assurance of the ritual how-to-do" is not my point here at all. I'm talking about more basic stuff in the sunna. The argument was about whether Sunna is part of Islam or not in the first place.

5/21/2005 05:52:00 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

'I'm talking about more basic stuff in the sunna'

Is there basic stuff and complex one? Sunna, as you kept defining, didn't appear to be any basic stuff. buddy!

5/21/2005 11:44:00 pm  
Blogger Mohamed said...

Yes there is buddy! There is basic stuff and trivial stuff. Trivial as to where yo u put your hands when you're praying, how to sit in tashahod, etc. Basic as to the basics of prayers, sejood, rekoo3, number of prayers, etc.

Is that too complex to comprehend!

5/22/2005 12:27:00 am  
Blogger haal said...

You people are funny.

Mo Buddy, btw, do you consider the definition of religion among the complex or the basic stuff ? (I am teasing)

5/22/2005 02:27:00 am  
Anonymous DNA said...

Life is religion, but politics is not life. I know where you're taking this :)

Won't let you.

5/22/2005 02:33:00 pm  
Blogger Dalulla said...

Haal.. I am shocked at you somehow, although not suprised! Many people are really messed up in thought about Islamic beliefs and practices. Regarding the comments you have heard about hajj, well maybe you heard comments from the wrong people regarding it's spirtiuality and sensation..I am also shocked at many of the comments listed herein! To understand something u must dwell into it, and deeply too, before begining to criticize and put opinions forth that I assure you Allah will ask you of! Maybe you don't have enough insight about Islam and Hajj in particular.
By the way, you are free to think whatever you want to think, but i truely sympathise for you and your commentators! I do agree that some people clinge onto small details rather than more important ones, but there are reasons for order of things and reasons. And yes Islam is a religion for all times and all people whether any of u accept or don't accept. I could sit here and write so much but honestly speaking, i wouldn't want to get into that because i myslef lack enough knowledge, but i thank GOD i do not think the way you people do.. Please no offense, but i really do feel blessed, and not because i am ignorant or blindfolded or like a gamousa going in circles around the sa2ya! but because i have read many things and got myself more involved to understand and reason. I myself went through doubts and had many question marks, and when i still do, i go to the right people for reason, and i usually find the answers i need!
I suggest maybe some of u would want to visit the following site: www.harunyahya.com. quite an informative site that dwells into so many aspects of religion.. I would also suggest that some of you hear Dr. tarek AlSweidan's "Al Dar al akhera, and the prophet Mohamed's (Allahoma saly wasalem 3aleih) tapes.. there are many things i could suggest. I am sure if any of u people really want to understand and save yourselves from Allah's anger and rage, you try to get to really know things properly, and for you haal, doubting in many hadeeth is not right because in the quraan Allah states that in order for us not to loose our path, we must follow the Quraan and the hadeeth.. another thing concerning the ahadeeth, God almighty said "wama yantiko 3anel hawa, in howa illa wa7youn you7a" (i pray God forgives me if i misplaced a word or something.. and please do not be offended at my opinion, but really, i pity many of your thoughts!
Oh an by the way..Al moe'men la you3azaz be jahlo yawm al qiyamah!

5/23/2005 02:55:00 am  
Blogger Dalulla said...

by the way..i am not a fanatic..and i am not ignorant either!!

5/23/2005 03:01:00 am  
Blogger haal said...

'Shocked but not surprised?' Why?

'Maybe you don't have enough insight about Islam and Hajj in particular.' I never claimed I did. But, hey, neither do you. If you have then will be glad to read it.

'there are reasons for order of things and reasons' Who said otherwise. There should sure be otherwise we will be in a total chaos.

'And yes Islam is a religion for all times and all people whether any of u accept or don't accept.' Which Islam? Please, some one defines Islamic religion.

'thank GOD i do not think the way you people do.', WHo said you have to think my way. I too thank God I dont think ur way.

'go to the right people for reason, and i usually find the answers i need.' Who are these right people. Give us examples of the question marks, and of the answers you found, please. It could be helpful, or we are forever doomed with god's rath and anger!

'hear Al Dar al akhera', why would I only hear about the afterlife, what about this life too? Did we just eliminate this whole life to just the hereafter and escatology.

'in the quraan Allah states that in order for us not to loose our path, we must follow the Quraan and the hadeeth', did Allah really say that? Verse:Sura will be appreciated. Even if He said so, which hadith. Among the muslim scholars there have been many attempts to sift right from wrong hadith. Why do you think the bukhary's book is called, 'Sahih', does this tingle your brain to think that there might be 'not sahih' ones, or you are blessed God makes you not think in this direction. Btw, 'loose' or 'lose'. Do you think there is a difference or just a spelling mistake!

'wama yantiko 3anel hawa, in howa illa wa7youn you7a" Who said that I suspected that. But historically speaking this 'nutik' was not fully documented.

'wama yantiko 3anel hawa, in howa illa wa7youn you7a" (i pray God forgives me if i misplaced a word or something' So why didn't you do a little effort and check the verse to avoid 'misplacing a word or something', instead of just reaching for God to forgive you. How would He forgive you if you didnt do any effort to check your stuff... Or you are just relying on God's forgiveness wee khalass!

5/23/2005 09:27:00 am  
Blogger haal said...

' I am not a fanatic..and i am not ignorant either' This statment should not start with, 'by the way'. It is not a 'btw' statment.

5/23/2005 09:29:00 am  
Blogger Mohamed said...

Dalulla, although I agree with your main argument, I find it very hard to listen to what you say with statements like:

"i truely sympathise for you and your commentators"
"whether any of u accept or don't accept."
"but i thank GOD i do not think the way you people do.. "
"i pity many of your thoughts!"

You throw those statements and then keep saying "please no offense", are you serious?! I'm not offended the least bit actually, but I'm afraid your message didn't get through communicating the way you did. Hmmm..

I assume that you were trying to make a point, not just try to show that we're a bunch of pitiful group of people! who will not be in the same place as you in the hereafter.

5/23/2005 10:26:00 am  
Anonymous Hameed said...

wow... Haal, you slaughtered the poor lady. Not to that extend ya3nee? She was trying to make a point, as Mohamed said, she didn't do a good job, but her intentions were not that bad to pick on almost every statment of hers.

Btw, you scare people off your blog at times, certain type of people to be exact, although you do have nice stuff here.

5/23/2005 05:07:00 pm  
Blogger haal said...

Did I? Well, this wasnt my intention.

I just hoped there was more value to her comment than just judging from a dark hole.

5/23/2005 10:32:00 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Haal, you need to watch out for some copyright laws on the internet. You can't copy and paste ideas and thoughts and poets and claim it is yours.

Other than the dishonesty part, which I don't think you care about much, you can get in legal trouble.

5/23/2005 11:16:00 pm  
Anonymous Haal said...

yes annonymous, thanks for your concern. Please tic here and there and guide them to my site. As you brilliantly guessed, I dont care about the dishonesty part.

5/23/2005 11:29:00 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

sure, I will send them your way no problem.

5/24/2005 04:00:00 am  
Blogger haal said...

Cool! Now I hope you vented off a little. Ok girl, go get a life ba'a.

5/24/2005 10:26:00 am  
Anonymous DNA said...

What's going on here? What have you copied and pasted?

5/24/2005 10:33:00 am  
Anonymous DNA said...

Where did the 'personal life' comment go? Am I hallucinating?

*Runs off like a headless chicken*

5/24/2005 04:38:00 pm  
Blogger haal said...

It took today and tomorrow half day off to vote 'NO'. Will be back tomorrow, hopefully without a yellow round sticker on her ...., let us say, mouth!

5/24/2005 04:56:00 pm  
Anonymous Hameed said...

Funny!!

5/24/2005 05:11:00 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Girl what girl? I have a life woman but obviously you don't.

5/24/2005 08:50:00 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

what is the difference between haj and the other small one?

5/25/2005 09:34:00 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry another question: why mecca? is it a sacred spot, how so? OR is the the direction? Is it a particular spot i see people praying facing one another when they are infront of the black house. This makes it look like the actual house is meant to be sacred? what is inside the house? well, lots of questions!

Any explanation?

5/25/2005 09:37:00 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tu es la plus adorable, jolie, fute agnostique sur terre. Com'on, nous tu taquinons. Tu sais que j'adore comment tu emploies (v.c) le secteur gris dans une maniere dont parfaite la plupart des personnes ne peuvent pas faire.

bye for now! ce sera mon dernier commentaire sur ce blog. Je promets!

L.

5/25/2005 11:31:00 am  
Blogger haal said...

As far as I know, the difference between umra and Hajj is 1)the time, hajj has to be performed during a certain time of the year, while 'umra, is almost anytime
2)there is something called standing arafat (waqifit arafat) that is the main thing in haj, while in umra there is no waqfat arafat and some other ritual called throwing the gamarat.

These are the difference as far as I know. And of course, hajj is one of 5 pillars of islam, required for every capable muslim--a ritual you do purely for Allah, while Umra is, personally speaking, is more for yourself.

I hope someone will correct me on the differences if I missed out on something.

5/26/2005 11:33:00 am  
Blogger haal said...

I dont have answers to your other questions. I personally don't know. I ask myself the same questions, but I sure know there must be a reason for Mecca in specific, this particular spot, but why??? dont know.

As for the everyone praying towards the ka'ba each one facing one another, this is true. I read before that if you remove the ka'ba while people praying, people will be actually praying to one another. So for me the ka'aba is a uniting destination, a reminder that we should respect one another and pay homage to one another. THe only example that came to my mind now is the yoga/Indian greeting where they say, Namaste meaning, 'i bow to the .... inside you.' Just my interpretation. But again, I regard everything in islam as a symbol to something amazingly beautiful, that is why I am anti symbols as we learnt to see it.

5/26/2005 11:44:00 am  
Blogger Mohamed said...

Haal, can we have some more of that kind of reflection please.

5/26/2005 01:08:00 pm  
Blogger haal said...

What do you mean? You didn't like this kaman! Oh please!!!

5/26/2005 01:14:00 pm  
Blogger Mohamed said...

You should've taken it as a compliment! I want to read more of this kind of reflections.

5/26/2005 01:40:00 pm  
Blogger haal said...

Are you kidding me! I know you would like it. But apart from that, I do say good stuff about religion when there is something good. It is not my intention at all to attack any religion! Anyways!!

5/26/2005 01:46:00 pm  
Blogger Mohamed said...

I know ya benty. Why are you so defensive! I know you're not attacking religion, you just have alot of questions. I simply liked your answer above (and the one about Muhammad the ummi, and others), and would enjoy reading more of it. Bass. And don't stop questioning, especially if you'll come up with stuff like that.

5/26/2005 02:01:00 pm  
Blogger haal said...

No defensive at all. Sorry it reached you like that there. I am feeling good actually.

Will leave in couple of hours for a mountain expedition, so I am kinda hyper.

Enjoy your weekend.

5/26/2005 02:06:00 pm  

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