30 May 2005


I was reading Atallah's when I found these words.
انا لا أشكو، ففى الشكوى إنحناء
و أنا نبض عروقى كبرياء
by Kamel el-Shinawy.

Can one really live without complaining? I don't know if we can do that.

Someone always tells me that you should know exactly where to direct your complains. Don't waste your time asking homage from the servants, go to the owner. Go directly to the source. He would know how to help, otherwise it is a waste of time. I agreed back then, but still had problems. Now I don't agree, and still have the same problems. I tend to conclude that these problems are my destined luggage that I need to get rid of but they are deeply rooted in me. I had to take a dive down. And yes, there is Boss, who isn't really a Boss.

P.S. Some of the comments exchanged down here are meant to be funny. Nothing personal. Please continue with the discussion. My pleasure.


Blogger Mohamed said...

and for every complaint you make, always propose a solution.

5/30/2005 01:11:00 pm  
Blogger haal said...

i doubt there will ever be a solution to be proposed....

5/30/2005 01:15:00 pm  
Blogger The Sandmonkey said...

Then what's the point of complaining?

5/30/2005 07:39:00 pm  
Anonymous Haal said...

No point. Just to vent off. Isn't this an enough point, SM?

5/30/2005 11:40:00 pm  
Blogger Dalulla said...

Why don't you agree any more? Just because you asked for many times for many years and things still haven't gone your way? or what?

I would just like to tell you you are mistaken not to believe in that anymore.. Some times we want things, but they are just not in our best interest, only we do not know it, But our loving God does... "Wa 3asa an tou7ebo shay'an wa howa sharoun lakom". Does this verse ring any bells???

And another thing, we are supposed to have models in life, or some one to look up to as an example. How about Prophet Ayoub? or Prophet Jesus? or perhaps Prophet Muhammed. They put up with so much, also for years, even though they were chosen ones, yet God wanted to test them.., Haal, please, reconsider, don't let Satan mislead u. Think ... think... "qull Ya 3badya al-latheen asrafou 3ala anfosihim,
la taqnatou men ra7mat Illah".

Despite all that, we all complain some times, (but if we do we should always say Al hamd Lillah 3al qadar khayrihi wa sharihi) but it is worth while to practice seeking help from God, maybe then He will at least give us the streagth to cope! If God puts us to it, He will guide is through it.

From me, Dahlia, with lots of love.....to you and ever one out there!

6/04/2005 04:02:00 am  
Blogger haal said...

'Just because you asked for many times for many years and things still haven't gone your way? or what?'
No this is not the reason. It is not a give-take relation when it comes to God. It is not that I need to do something to recieve something. I personally dont think this way. For instance, the richest people on earth are the one who you will consider 'not doing what god had asked', and not in particular have any religious side. And don't go into 'happiness and stuff like that' argument. We 'choose' to be happy and convince ourselves of this state. But anyways, my point is: we shouldn't treat god as this outside entity that we seek to please. We should seek to 'truly' find our own happiness and this is only achieved through knowing one self and discovering our own luggage and detatch ourselves from the 'pictures' of this and that, even the 'picture' we have of god.

'you are mistaken not to believe in that anymore'
we have some differences. I dont see that I am mistaken or not. I just don't have to see it the way you do. ALl the roads lead to Rome. And this very argument that Allah knows the best for our interest, well, i don't buy that too. Otherwise the prophet would never had said, 'istakheer qalbak' so this means to me at least, that your heart knows. And from here goes the saying that 'allah sits in the very very essence of your heart.' So instead of turning to an outside god we turn to an inside one. .....

'we are supposed to have models in life'
why supposed? Said who. Why would i consider the prophets my models.

'God wanted to test them'
I also dislike this idea of 'test' thing. Why do we have to diminish everything to test. Can you choose a better word like 'purify' for instance. I mean, to burn with the fire to strengthen the mould and make it more solid.... revisit the story of the creation and you will see what I mean.

'don't let Satan mislead u'
Satan doesn't exist if you want ask me.

'Think ... think'
I am thinking ahou!! Do you want me to think more ya3nee :)

'...if we do we should always say...'
Why do you make everything in a medicine capsule. If this do that, if that take this.... why is it that way. Don't u think it is limiting and is more about 'Fear' than about 'freeing oneself.' Why would we reduce our greatness to blindly obeying orders and acting like we are so freeked out from everything.

(WEll, get to go have breakfast. so hungry.)

6/04/2005 09:48:00 am  
Blogger haal said...

Oh, read Zoss and Mohammed post/and or out of Eden. They are having some good stuff there. the comments there are so good with also another friend starting to participate. They, i believe, are taking things into interesting levels that you might find interesting.

And, hey, i see you comment very early in the morning. why are you up so early? or would I say, why do you go to bed so late?

6/04/2005 09:53:00 am  
Blogger Mohamed said...

You two are cute together. Two extremes!

Haal, I think you can have a separate post to each of your answers.

My guess is Dahlia is up so early to pray Fajr.

6/04/2005 10:02:00 am  
Blogger haal said...

but can u tell that I am being 'nice' recently :)

hey, let her answer this early question. :)

6/04/2005 10:08:00 am  
Blogger Mohamed said...

Yes yes.. Is it your mood, or just bored from being harsh! :)

I can't have her do anything. She has her own mind. You triggered her to answer so I guess now she won't. Should've left her to come on her own again.

6/04/2005 10:23:00 am  
Blogger haal said...

I am not 'harsh' this is the rumour you have been spreading about me. :)

I meant the 'fajr' praying part, not the rest of the questions. I am sure Dalulla will answer. They are valid questions, at least to me.

I didn't trigger her to answer. How so? Hmm... i didn't force her to come, did I?

6/04/2005 10:30:00 am  
Blogger Dalulla said...

Hehe.. Hi ya Mohamed, I don't feel Haal is harsh.. I believe every one has the right to think freely sinsce no one's thought will bite the other, unless if offensive and i don't get offended easily since i try to be rational. But also every one has the right to da3wa. For the love of God and other people. Man lam yahtam bi amr al moslemeen falysa menhom... And i happen to care too much. Haal i just hope i am not bothering you, it would be the last thing i want to do. Please tell me if i do.

About being up so late, Mohamed got that right... but for yesterday especially, two reasons, my son is a bit of a hassel where going to sleep is concerned, so by the time he goes to bed, it is already late, and i figure if i go to bed i will probably be too tired to get up again for fajr (which is something i do not want to miss).
But since i have a reason for not praying these days, i choose to stay up to wake my husband for prayers.

Another reason is, I get to have some free time for myself to do whatever without Omar (my son chasing me around and pulling me away from the computer). I try to be a dedicated mother. But i still can't get him to sleep early.. Pray for me! hopefully it'll get better when he goes to nursery..

Haal, do you want me to comment about your comment or not? DOn't wanna bug you with long comments, since u already mentioned that

6/04/2005 03:39:00 pm  
Blogger haal said...


La'a sure, comment of course. But make it a little bit short. I really dont follow long posts. And I was not being sarcastic. For sure, I would like to see what you think. ANd infact I think this is healthy discussion.

As for omar sleeping early, well get a book called, 'sleeping habbits' it is a great book. Check it out. I saw it once in diwan. Plus as everything is, u need to have discipline even when it comes to sleeping habbits.

Good luck. Raising kids is the best thing one can do. I mean, raising them not diminishing them--judging from how I see most mother treat their kids. (I am speaking in general no double meaning intended at all.)

6/04/2005 04:12:00 pm  
Blogger Dalulla said...

What is your definition of happiness? How can we be content? what makes us so? Some one can be happy drinking all night and getting wasted? Do you think this is happiness? They sure think so? Happiness can be superficial and only timely, and happiness can be at feeling u are making a sacrafice for those you love. so it is relative, but what is true happiness? Some rich people are far from God, but even that has been covered in Islam. specifically in the quraan too.

Where is your Rome haal?
Allah knows al ghaib, we do not, all He does is guide us, in the case we ask for His guidance, that is all. Istikharat al kalb as mentioned by the prophet has to have a base.. and that is taking into consideration sharee3a. what do u mean outside God?

How can u detach yourself from god when your own soul is a nafkha from him??????? He gave us the body and soul and to Him is the return my dear.

why models? Simple, because we recieved info from God, via his prophets 3alihim al salam. they were the means that transferred ethics and religion to mankind. Ethics and religion were taught to Adam and the remianing prophets and thereby people, even those who did not follow religion. when Adam first sinned, He didn't know what to do, It was Allah who taught him the istighfar.

Which story of creation? where? (I am aware of it, but my question is which one DO YOU MEAN). please visit www.harunyahya.com (if interested, rich in scientific and religious information, browse through it when u have some time)

Satan does not exist? Ok fine, but tell me where u got that from please?

Yes, I would love for you to think more and more.. But with no restrictions, because i feel you have trapped yourself way deep at the bottom of the deep blue.. No offense ok? and i am not being sarcastic. I am very concerned. Don't be amongst those whom Allah referred to as "kolobouhm gholf" or "al latheen kasat koloubouhom". Once a person's heart hardens, it is difficult to recieve. Soften your heart. Or maybe u r just not exposing yourself to the correct info. Again, please do not be offended.

It is not about fear, it is ALL ABOUT LOVE. All about the truest love in life. When u love, u wanna satisfy, u do sacrafices, u go out of your way, but when u don't, u can never do any of the above.

I hope u enjoyed ur breakfast yesterday, and every day. Bon apetito (i prefer Italian .. hehe I am way too exposed to Italians).

6/05/2005 02:52:00 am  
Blogger haal said...

Tayeb, I guess our styles are a little bit different. Let me see.

'What is your definition of happiness?'
I have no particular definition. It is connection to the truth of the universe and not to restrict oneself to pictures, even if they are wonderful pictures. To uncover the hidden and enjoy it. SOmething like that. And I dont like the examples you gave. You are judgemental actually and see world through a mould that someone created for you. My opinion.

'happiness can be at feeling u are making a sacrafice for those you love'
There is nothing in called sacrifice for others. Excuse my selfishness. 'al-aqrabun awla bel ma3rouf.' and thus, who is closer to you than yourself. YOu should know urself first and then in process you will be able to give. But just going around saying I am here for you and that stuff, is not my style.

'Allah knows al ghaib, we do not, all He does is guide us, in the case we ask for His guidance'
I beg to disagree. This does sound like a king not God.

'is taking into consideration sharee3a'
Shari'a eih bass! Please define shari'a? ma3alesh, Haal and the definitions.

Where is your Rome haal?
In Italy----daaah

'How can u detach yourself from god when your own soul is a nafkha from him'
Who said we detach ourselves from God? Did I say that?

'why models? Simple...'
Simple awee!!

'...they were the means that transferred ethics and religion to mankind.'
Ma3alesh bardou define religion.

'Satan does not exist? Ok fine, but tell me where u got that from'
Define Satan.

'Yes, I would love for you to think more and more But with no restrictions,'
Talking to me? I am trying to do that. But there are restrictions and restrictions, right. this is what you want to say?

'feel you have trapped yourself way deep at the bottom of the deep blue'
Deep blue the chess-computer or the ocean.

'Don't be amongst those whom Allah referred to as "kolobouhm gholf"'
Why do you use these big terms, Dahlia. Can there be a stage between stages, like Mu'tazila theology approach. why should i be kasat qulbhoum or cheer leaders. Can't I be in the middle.

'maybe u r just not exposing yourself to the correct info'
What is the correct info? Long story.

'When u love, u wanna satisfy, u do sacrafices, u go out of yourway'
Tayeb when will i go on my way if i am always out of my way.

'I hope u enjoyed ur breakfast yesterday'
I did actually. I had crepe with choclate and fruits.

'I am way too exposed to Italians'

6/05/2005 11:27:00 am  
Blogger Dalulla said...

Haal i don't mean to hassel you here. The reason why i asked u which religion u follow was for a reason.

If u are a moslem, and u follow what the teachings of the quraan and sunna have to say, maybe u would have understood my points, if u are a moslem but do not agree with the teachings given, then, so help u God.

If what i wrote was a hassel, then no more. You have set your mind to some things and that is that. It is your life my dear, your deeds, and your akherah. I am not the one who will judge u. God will. and if you are sure of what you believe in, then so be it. I was always writing to you in the sense of the moslem beliefs, ones which most moslems would agree to. But if you don't khalas dear, no problems.

If this satisfies you, then great, i feel no loss. Some times people need to have space, i do not want to invade your space any more, because simply if this is the way you want it, then suit yourself.

I had comments about yours, bas i would have rather chatted them out, it is much easier, but again it is over with, no more of me invding your space and belief. I stated my points, defended what most moslems would agree to defending and speaking up for in terms of duty as moslems.

I feel ok that i did what i felt i should do, i just hope u didn't feel offended in any manner.

I love crepe, but with caramel.

Exposed to Italians cause my hubby's mother is Italian/lebanese, and father Greek/Armenian (My hubby is a convert by the way). But italian is more of an exposure to me since my mother in law is more into the italian side, plus he works at the Italian consulate in cairo. He speaks Italian alot, with his mom, and for work, and the few friends he has also speak in Italian alot.

I would love to visit Italy some time.. maybe later i will learn some Italian myself, I understand a bit, since i also worked in Sharm for almost a year and used to go on regular basis. I like the language very much.

6/05/2005 01:00:00 pm  
Blogger Dalulla said...

P.S.. I just wanted to draw your attention to a verse in surat al baqara.

افتؤمنون ببعض الكتاب و تكفرون ببعض

This was the reason i was going through all of these comments with you. I really have no clue what religion you follow.. but the reason i started this whole thing was because i was under the impression you were moslem, so i felt weird about your thoughts. and this verse came to my mind.

but in all cases, I don't think any real moslem, believer would think the way you do. I know actually, not think.

Bas again, freedom of choice of faiths was granted, if Allah permits it, we should all do so, bas as moslems, we should try to help moslems who are astray.

I was wrong maybe where u were concerned.. But if u ask me, i don't think you are moslem. So sorry for any incovenience Haal.

This was only meant for a moslem. "Lakoum dinoukom, wa leya din" so sorry again for any inconvenience if u are christian, jew, or even an athiest for all i care.

By the way, I have a couple of athiest friends, but we try not to get into these subjects.. my mother in law is supposed to be christian, but she decided there was no god any more. So we leave it at that, but when she opens the subject, we are able to have a decent and civilized conversation, (but most of the time, we both have an aggressive tone - each defending her point- but decency is around). But when she attacks moslem faith with false accusations, i try to explain things and stop her if she goes too far, and we are on very good terms.

So i hope u have the same feeling.. no grudge that is.

6/05/2005 01:36:00 pm  
Blogger Mohamed said...

If I may interject here. First, I think your efforts are much appreciated Dalulla, and I'm sure that God will highly reward you, whether you are right or wrong. That is, until you really messed up.

Granted, Haal does think differently than the common way around here. But does that make her a 'follower' of a different religion? She asked you a few questions that you didn't answer. But since when is asking questions kufr?!!

I really can't believe you said that!

Dalulla, I think you have in fact committed a sin by calling Haal not a moslem, and I am sorry you said that, and you should be too. What real evidence do you have of your claim? who are you to call people moselms or non moslems? What authority or enough knowledge do you have? What insight inside people's hearts do you have?

You didn't even know how she thinks for God's sake, you didn't even ask her to elaborate!! Is it really that easy to reject people and call them non moslems!

6/05/2005 02:11:00 pm  
Blogger haal said...

No hassel. What makes you think so. Did I say that?

Don't call me 'dear', I really hate this word. Sorry. You might be saying it with good intention.

NO worries about offending me. I am not at all. I wish you would do though.

1. Yes, I am a Moslem. But what does this have to do with any of your points. I understand all what you are saying but I just think they are a little 'superficial', no offense intended. I actually don't think that being a Moslem and thinking this way is somehting bad. Btw, what is this way.

'You have set your mind to some things.'
What are these things that I set my mind on?

'It is your life my dear, your deeds, and your akherah.'
What did I do wrong? Seriously! I didnt say anything khaless. The conversation was neutral.

'I was always writing to you in the sense of the moslem beliefs'
And this is what? As u said, 'most' muslims agree to--so there are some differences. Should we shut these differences up, or just understand them and see what they bring. Why do we always have to go to the idea of 'fitna' and treat oneself and other as babies who just dont know anything, and over protect them. Excuse me, if you are unable to make a dialogue without reverting to punishment, dear, suit urself stuff then there is something missing.

'If this satisfies you, then great, i feel no loss'
Loss or gain. What has this have to do with anything. I think you are just taking it too personal and thus losing the beauty of the dialogue.

'My hubby is a convert by the way' Converted or reverted. Why do you say that, does it matter?

'فتؤمنون ببعض الكتاب و تكفرون ببعض'
is this the reason why you have the dialogue. Do you think I am doing that?

'I don't think any real moslem, believer would think the way you do.' 'i don't think you are moslem.'
So you think I am not a moslem or a believer. Really! I won't take this as an insult though. It is a little not so nice to call me that when you dont know me or even read my posts but I will accept that, since you said that 'you are not into reading much'. Plus, who are you to decide who is or is not a muslim. In fact, attitude like yours is what screwed the muslim world.

'we should try to help moslems who are astray.'
Who is 'we'. Astray? From what?

'...we both have an aggressive tone'
Right! You do. I hope you know why.

'when she attacks moslem faith with false accusations'
So far I didnt attack. Not even my style. But you do try to explain, what are your sources?

No grudges tab3an. Of course not. Betekalemee fee eih. Eshta tab3an!
Just promise not to delete your comments on my blog. I really like them. Seriously!

6/05/2005 02:20:00 pm  
Blogger haal said...

You are a muslim and all. Do you think what Dahlia is trying to argue with is valid? I mean, is this really the ideas they believe? From where did she learn that stuff, and this way of talkng and preaching? Just an insight to the factors of this line of thought. What is the undercurrent that is stearing this?

Of course, I might be totally wrong in the way I think...sure I have my limited version for sure.

Forget about 'non-muslim' part that she accused me with.

6/05/2005 04:21:00 pm  
Blogger Mohamed said...

Well, I think muslims learn to be confident of themselves and their beliefs, and most importantly in the existance of God as One. Lack of confidence in any of that results in being tarnished as a 'weak' muslim, with weak beliefs. Lack of confidence in our belief system is associated with doubting God's message, which shouldn't be questioned. But the question is I guess, shouldn't we try to understand it, and understand how it evolves with us?

So many muslims try to reflect that strong faith of theirs onto others, especially that they believe that da3wa is a major component of Islam. I think da3wa is fine, and it is done by everyone, muslim or not. So nothing wrong with that. What worries me is how da3wa in good faith can turn into attacks upon those who don't follow.

What worries me also is when da3wa takes a turn where you have to think the same way that "I" do.

The thing is Haal, you confuse alot of people by your questions, questioning pretty much (presumably) very basic concetps in current day Islam. And most of the time you don't provide answers, nor the answers that you tend to agree with.

So do you think there is a God or not? Forget about His form, but is He supreme or not? is He One or not? Is Muhammad his messenger, the last messenger? do you believe in the message he delivered? I know we probably won't get straight answers from you.

6/05/2005 04:41:00 pm  
Anonymous haal said...

But I never negated anything. Did I?

well, Yes, of course there is God. How can it be otherwise. And of course He is One. Muhammad indeed is his messenger. I believe in the message he delivered. So..... what does this mean! I totally believe in all these things. Did I ever said I don't to any of that stuff.

6/05/2005 04:55:00 pm  
Blogger Mohamed said...

ana 3aref ba'a.. ask Dahlia :)

6/05/2005 04:57:00 pm  
Blogger haal said...

Helw awee! :)

And she doesn't even know what she is talking about aslan. Excuse me ba'ah ya Dalulla. Lamo'akhza ba'ah, wasa3ely shewaya kedda ya akh, wee entee ya hanem... entee meen aslan to judge me. Aslan ya3nee. Begad. Lama enteee don't read what I write, have no clue what I believe, oumal nazla feyah takh takh leah :) wee aal ana 3amlah feiha mu'adaba... la'aaaa la'aaa ya oukhteeee, ana muslim wee nous wee talaterba3!

Wallahy, this is miserable to have people think like that.

6/05/2005 05:05:00 pm  
Anonymous Mae said...

sama3 houuuusssss.... el ma3alema beta3et shader el samak, el ma3alema Haal betetkalem ya regala!! Haal wee nouss!! :) wee ra'asnee ya gada'!!

Hilarious... paris eih bass.. did u mean, shari' franca fee souk al-samak!

6/05/2005 05:15:00 pm  
Blogger haal said...

Wasa3 wasa3 le oustazentna, el dactora mae.... ya mit foul 3allah 3eyoun el hababyeb. entee mabetgeesh ella fee el mashakel... bass bardou, han'oum ma3akee be ahla wageb... samakteen boltiya hena lee 3arouset el bo7our el oustaza Mae!!

6/05/2005 05:17:00 pm  
Blogger Mohamed said...


Aiwa kiddah ezharo we bano 3ala 7a'ee'etkom ba'a..

Enty mesh konty bayya3et fegl abl kiddah?!

6/05/2005 05:19:00 pm  
Blogger haal said...

ouster 3allaya allah laa yese'ak ya si-l-affendi... enta 3andak walaya bardou....

takhoud bori....wala baklaweeezzz mehabesh

6/05/2005 05:20:00 pm  
Anonymous Mae said...

tushkary ya me'lema. kherek sab'i.

6/05/2005 05:23:00 pm  
Blogger doshar said...

what si going on here? this is the first time i get on your site haal, and i was really interested in alot of what you had to say, and what changed this conversation from a contraversial exchange of opinions to a session of rad7? i don't know why you are so defensive haal but this is not the solution

6/06/2005 05:11:00 pm  
Blogger doshar said...

and mohamed? you are more of a spectator in this thing? what is your opinion on things? i can't really get your opinion.

6/06/2005 05:13:00 pm  
Blogger doshar said...

i think that what all of you have been talking about is really important and it is not personal to you haal or dallula, it is much bigger and more serious than to turn it into a girl fight, haal don't take dallula's comments personally, i believe you possted these ideas were posted for discussion. and i think it is worth continuing this discussion and getiing to a conclusion

6/06/2005 05:18:00 pm  
Anonymous Haal said...

Doshar, glad that you found the conversation interesting. I didnt take anything personal at all. I was just kidding with this rad7 session. Was intending to make the whole thing light and funny. Sorry you got that impression.

So, since you are here, forget about the girl's fight(which is not the case) and share in teh discussion.

I too wish that this discussion be opened again.

6/06/2005 06:55:00 pm  
Blogger Dalulla said...

Sorry...busy busy busy.. I wanted to comment earlier but couldn't unfortunately.. Hi y'all.. 7eta country..lol
anyway.. ic a new comer... no girl fight doshar.. It is much more serious!! To me at least..
Interesting rad7 haal.. a new side.. mmmmm.

Mohamed you are right in concept, no one should decide that a moslem is kafir.. it is a great sin and i am quite aware of that. You see, you have not gone to my page and seen the comments between haal and I, or maybe you did bas they are somehow realted).
I was not bakafar haal, since i did not know she was moslem in the first place. I had asked her and she would not say anything, all she said was does it matter? And she kept asking me define religion/Islam, many misleading and confusing questions.. So therefore when i said herein, "if u ask me i do not think u are moslem" that was just a guess that I made because she just would not say and her questions were very strange...

Ya3ni Satan for instance has been mentioned so many times in the Quraan and the ahadeeth, yet she does not believe there is Satan, so if any one was in my place and asked someone if they wre Moslem, and their reply was "does it matter?", what would anyone think. And yes I have read some of her posts bas may be not enough. In all cases, my mistake.. Bas wallahi ana makafart 7ad. I would never do such a thing.. maybe this was the impression taken, bas No way, I never meant it like this khales.

Haal, i am sorry for my assumption, but let's put it this way, you DO confuse me. You gave me an impression (big time that you may be one of those mostashrekeen out there, always trying to find a fissure in Islam and in Moslems) Only God knows my intentions and I alone will bare the sin if I meant to akafarek. If you had just told me you were Moslem, i would have never assumed what i had.

And no Mohamed, i don't think "da3wa" in the sense of: if you do not think "my" way or it is the high way and takfeer and that sort of unacceptable behaviour. But come on, there are things that are concrete, and getting into doubting them messes things up and could very much mislead some one who is intending to convert to Isalm for instance or Moslems of weak faith.
Ya3ni ya haal I was just giving you examples of models in life where religion is concerned, and come to think of it, religion does have almost every thing to do with our lives… at least that is the way we have been taught by Prophet Muhammed (P.B.U.H), and by the Quraan.

Besides, I also read your post about "Faith Question" and your comments about God having to look right and left from his throne to see America and India and that sort of thing.. Enty keda you gave God attributes of Humans.. when no one should not do that.. so many things confused me and I hadn’t read many posts where u related Islam to yourself as a Moslem, plus the fact that you would not just say yes to being a Moslem… So I assumed otherwise, but ok, maybe I should have been more careful, and I already apologized.

Haal let me tell you something, earlier when I was younger, I also thought why do people want to know what religion i follow, so i never answered. Some people actually thought i was Jewish at university, simply because once a Christian friend asked me whether I am Moslem or Christian? My answer was, what about the third relgion? Have you forgotton it or what? And the discussion was left at that. This lead some people to think i was actually Jewish, especially that it was known I was Egyptian/British and my name did not indicate anything, plus at the time my Arabic was kind of weak.

Till one day in Ramadan someone saw me coming out of the mosque, and I was surprised to their surprised faces, and was like, WHAT?? Why are u pple staring at me like that? So they were like, we were convinced u were Jewish. So it was simply my fault since I never answered, but I was not upset that people thought I was Jewish or Christian, since "I brought it onto myself".
That taught me, that I should say and with pride in my heart, that I am Moslem. WE should all be grateful for n3met el Islam and work on building it and strengthening it, rather than speculating silly thoughts about divine teachings, such as The existence of Satan in this particular discussion.. How can you say you do not believe Satan exists??? And I asked u to tell me where u got that from, u replied with another question.. Define Satan!! Ezzay ya3ni Define Satan??? Kan men al jin fafasaka 3an Amr rabih!! Here is my definition.. Monthar ela yawm aldin… Alshaytan ya3idokom alfaqr" so many instances mentioned of Satan and yet you come and simply say Satan does not exist? And define Satan?? COME ON what kind of discussion is this?? How can this be something u expect God to be happy with, and for me as a Moslem, no.. I cannot just take it easy to these claims..

I never meant takfeer ya haal and Mohammed, I would never do such a thing. But the issue and the matter is Haal really wrote things that were affirmative for me that she was not Moslem. Haal forgive me please, but u created confusion with your questions and answers and also many of your writings. But my apology doesn't include being sorry for any other thing.. And the things I learned ya haal were from the Quraan and the Sunnah as well as the Ahadeeth, and listening to different Scholars of Islam like , Elsheikh Sha3rawy, Dr.Tarek Al Sweidan, and many others, plus the Quraan, sunnah and ahadeeth and other sources.

Mohammed please go read the comments between haal and I on my blog under the title of "Happy because" ok.

6/06/2005 07:36:00 pm  
Blogger haal said...

Ekhwatee waa akhwatee fee al-blog,
Dalulla ruined all the fun of the rad7 by saying that she didnt mean takfeer.... Well, this was a side point.

I need to go to the Italian club in cpl of minutes. Do you go there? Well, you should. It is a nice place, but not tonight.

6/06/2005 09:27:00 pm  
Anonymous Haal said...

'..may be one of those mostashrekeen always trying to find a fissure in Islam and in Moslems'
This is a silly generalizing judgement. Not all mostashrekeen do that. I suggest you read more. I am not even sure if you know who mostashrekeen are?

'religion does have almost every thing to do with our lives'
You mean 'Islam', right? Or you meant the 3 religions u consider 'religion' in your opinion.

'..God having to look right and left from his throne to see America and India'
I suggest you re-read the post.

'..I was not upset that people thought I was Jewish or Christian, since "I brought it onto myself".'
What is that? I find that very silly, no offense. Why do you talk like that. You speak as if you are superior to christians and jewish....who taught you this stuff?

'speculating silly thoughts about divine teachings, such as The existence of Satan in this particular discussion..'
the way you brought in Satan in the discussion I consider very silly. YOu said 'dont let Satan' moush 3aref ye3mel eih. So let us blame satan for everytihng. This bad dude who whispers in our ears... This is KG stories and ideas.

'How can you say you do not believe Satan exists?'
Eih satan dah that you want him to exist so badly. Fee eih? Is this the criteria of a muslim and not.

'How can this be something u expect God to be happy with, and for me as a Moslem, no.. I cannot just take it easy to these claims..'
Kol dah for Satan, Ya lahwee.. Mohem awee.. ibn meen fee masr Satan dah?

Anyways, I was thinking to myself, what on earth are we debating here. Are we debating me not providing an answer to 'Are you a muslim' question, or Satan exists... I am confused. I actually lost track of the whole thing....

6/06/2005 11:58:00 pm  
Blogger doshar said...

i lost track too. but maybe because an important issue came up. you do not believe satan exists si what i understood from your comment ya haal. i think dalia is emphasizing on this point so badly not because of his importance of course, but as mohamed says, this is something basic that we know. believing in God is one thing, being good moslems is more than that. islam as a word comes from tasleem li Allah, he is our God, and we submit to his will. that is what islam is ( in my humble opinion) and God has told us to believe in his prophets and books and angels. believing in his books, means that we do not question things in them and say for example "convince me" or "i don't like this part". so, because God has clearly warned us from satan many times in the Quran (and i believe in the bible and tawrah too) then he exists. so the question i think was not wether you believe in satan's existence or not, it is wether you believe everything in quran or not. i feel ya haal, that you have been through alot of stuff that made you too tired to keep up strong faith and optimism. faith is called that because it has no physical gaurantees, that is why it is hard to hold on to your faith when in times of trouble. it takes alot of effort, but when you get through it , it is the only thing that gets you through

6/07/2005 01:35:00 am  
Blogger Dalulla said...

The state I am in: "Smiling"...

Step aside every one (including myself) Sebnalek enty el definitions ya haal ya beta3et el "definitions, meanings, and understandings"

I meant Islam of course, it sums them all up (whether you agree or not, I am satisfied being in agreement with God)

Can you please be kind enough to remind me of the title?

Find it as silly as you may please (no offense), YES, as a matter of fact Not just me, but all Moslems are superior in the sense of being ONE BIG STEP AHEAD OF JEWS AND CHRISTIANS in terms of belief not humanity, since Allah and His Prophet Mohammed (p.b.u.h) akmal lana deenana wa2atam 3alyna ne3meto. Who taught me? God has, and so did Prophet Mohammed.

Since when have God's verses and the Prophet's teachings become silly and KG storied and ideas? Rabena yehdeena gamee3an. What can I say?

Satan ebn meen fe masr huh?? You know quite well it is not just that, bas Begad begad, I cannot find a comment. Thank God he is not ebn any of banu Adam at all! And haal, I don't want him to exist, he already does whether you agree or don't.
"Is this the criteria of a Muslim and not".
Clarify please.

I am sorry to say, but it seems you have lost track of the MAIN TRACK, and sadly, not just here. I hope u find your way back soon, but as long as u r not aware of it or choose to not be aware, or are convinced you are on the right track, then Allah ye3eenek ba2a… or maybe not.. U R HAAL, you do not need to be back. YOU ARE HERE (3ashan matez3aleesh bas). You are doing great… mafeesh mashakel.

Enjoy the short ride Haal all you can. But there is a very bumpy one coming ahead, I pray you are safe, happy, healthy and all the good things any one would want for themselves.

I pray nothing except that you be happy and content with your life and convictions. Bas keda. That is the most important thing right?

Yours sincerely,
An ignorant, backward thinking, blogger, who knows nothing about anything… (so it seems to you that is)….

6/07/2005 02:43:00 am  
Blogger Mohamed said...

Dalulla, you ended up getting off-topic again here by praying for Haal and asking for hedaya for her. I don't think that was the topic of discussion. Begad, I want to hear your argument. Doshar actually had a pretty reasonable one.

6/07/2005 05:53:00 am  
Anonymous Haal said...

Dalulla, you are 'kiddish' in a way. I don't get ur comments.

Doshar, I didn't say Satan doesn't exist and dont want anyone to 'proove it to me' sorta thing. I am not into that. And no, Dalulla, I am not 'beta3et el defintions', but I believe that every term we speak of and believe in so much like hadret kedda should be at least defined, not because it doesnt exist, but because defining it can give it a better perspective.

Back to Satan. I don't personally believe Satan is this 'unseen creature' whispering in us. It is a symbol. Nothing struck me more than a verse in the koran, loosely translated as 'and Satan said to the Insan ikfar, and when the insan Kafur, satan said, inny bar'i menak iny akhaf allah rab al-3alameen...' In fact some school of thoughts see satan as 'love', and 'jealousy' because of Satan's extreme love to allah...that turned into arrogance...WE dont have to go into that.

But, on the practical level, I dont think satan exists as long as the person is in a state of remembrance of Allah. There is no place for 'satan', who is a symbol of forgetfulness to exist. The more 'present' the person with 'Allah' the weaker the waswasa, which is from the nafs.

6/07/2005 09:09:00 am  
Anonymous Haal said...

Actually, I went back to read dalulla comment. What are you talking about ya fal7ousa entee. You go on and on endless with silly things. Unable to say anything. You know what, I was thinking you have something to say, but the more I read ur comments, the more I think you have nothing to say.

Did i get personal yet?

6/07/2005 09:22:00 am  
Blogger Mohamed said...

ya Halulla, I can't stop laughing lamma beteskhanny. You're so funny... :)

6/07/2005 09:32:00 am  
Anonymous haal said...

Not yet...I am holding myself begad. She is so strange, her tone is like that I hear on the metro from these munaqabat girls talking in the woman car! sa3b awee

6/07/2005 09:40:00 am  
Blogger Mohamed said...

La'a believe me she's much better. Those metro women could potentially yenzelo feeky darb.

I like your new nickname Haalulla :D

6/07/2005 09:44:00 am  
Anonymous haal said...

La'a bass ma3alesh, excuse me dahlia, you are sa3ba shewaya, and very immature in how you discuss things. Talking from the minbar of game3 el fat7 kind of thing, to some kufar kids.

I like Haalulla... oups, lahsan dahlia teftekraha Halilooya.. chrisitian song!! Oups, u shouldnt do that asl the muslims are one step ahead. HOwa eih, musical ladder. I cant believe people still think in a jahiliya way!

6/07/2005 09:50:00 am  
Anonymous Mae said...

I understand where you are coming from re/ your line of thought and re/ Satan in particular. I too am irritated from D's comments. My personal opinion is people are looking for 'yes/No' answer, in fact, 'Yes' answer to 'musalamat' that are talken about in COran. I know you are not questioning these, but attempting to find a deeper meaning, dig behind the symbolic nature of the story, the figure ...etc.

I don't really understand what is the importance of D's masticating on this Satan issue so hard. Dalia, all what Haal is saying is just to look beyond the 'picture of satan' as an outside force to one that is inside us. That everyone one of us has a 'fire' nature, similar to Satan, and this is what it represents. This might get us into 'should we take every story of the Coran literal?', 'does Coran came down for the arab and to suit their mentality back then and this is why it came down this way with lots of symbols that could be understood in many different ways.' Well...

Back to this Satan, Haal, I think again Haal is into 'different stations of the nafs (since u read shadhili teaching and sufism in general). The 7 stages which I can trace some from the coran (in case Dahlia is wondering which I think she will judging from her comments)and the position of Satan in each of these stages--(amara, lawama, amina, mutm'aina, radhiya, mardhiya, kamila). Satan here is not Satan the 'outside bad guy) but the inside 'absence from God', 'forgetfulness', 'arrogance of the nafs'....etc. So again, Satan is just a symbol of us in our different stations and walks--so I believe.

6/07/2005 10:19:00 am  
Anonymous Haal said...

Thanks Mae. And with these different stages come Satan in the different forms, and 'places' and if I may say 'stations.'

Maybe we will have a post that talks about the stations of the nafs as taught by the sufis, and the different positions of satan vis-a-vis the nafs. Wanna chip in Mae?

6/07/2005 11:03:00 am  
Blogger Mohamed said...

Mae, good to see you pitch in.

I think of it much simpler than that. No problem to think of Satan as a symbol and all, inside us, with seven stages and all, but that's just complicating it. Whether he's outside of us and acting upon us, whispering and what not, or inside, or part of us. It is simply evil in any form that is pushing us to do evil, and that's part of our inner struggle. The end result is the same really, whether we blame Satan the outsider, or Satan the insider, it boils down to yourself, your moral and your belief.

So I'm actually abit confused now. Are you disagreeing with what most Muslims believe in, that there are angels and jin? and the references in the Quran that Satan is a jin (and I had a question once, why was he standing amongst the angels if he's a jin).

6/07/2005 11:05:00 am  
Anonymous Mae said...

as long as you see it as you, yourself and your nafs it is fine. The stations are actually less complicated, for some people, and this is the way they understand things. Plus, it has its own beauty in the 'walking'.

To your question re/ Angels and Jin, well, I am not disagreeing there are Jin and angels there are but not in the 'picture' we have for them in our mind. There is a history for 'angels'...that kept evolving from one stage to another until it became this idea we know of these days.

Haal, do a posting on angels too...

6/07/2005 11:19:00 am  
Blogger Mohamed said...

Well, you know Mae I'm a simple guy who likes things simple. But yeah, "elnafs 'ammara belsoo'a", but I'm not sure if that makes it Satan. The end result is the same, yes, and we need to do the same regardless of how we define Satan. Its not like if he's an outsider then we'll go running after him with a broom (like those who say spit three times to your left!). At the end of the day,you still fight the "message within", eh ;)

As for angels, I'm not that imaginative (yes, simple and unimaginative guy, very dull) to be able to imagine how jin and angels are. One is from fire and one is from light, and we are from teen, eh. Invisible, invinsible creatures, that can have multiple forms, can get into people.. I don't know. I'm not sure. But they do exist, atleast we agree on that.

6/07/2005 11:51:00 am  
Blogger doshar said...

why are you trying to defiine if satan is within us or outside? what really counts is very clear to those who listen. of course there is an outer satan that yewaswes leena, you all know sooret el nas, which clearly tells us that some gin waswes in our chests. and yes there is also our own nafs that can tell us to do evil of course. and hal is correct in saying that the remembrance of Allah is what keeps us ok. but we can't say that satan doesn't exist to those in remembrance of Allah, he just has no sultan (power) over you.

6/07/2005 11:59:00 am  
Blogger doshar said...

btw i think it is good for us to think of him as an outside entity that is trying to drag you down to hell with him (that is what he wants to do). it can actually motivate us to fight back sometimes. for example, sometimes i am awake till fajr, and like 5 minutes before i feel really sleepy and can't get up to pray even though i had trouble sleeping for hours. has this happened to any of you?

anyway, when i think this is the devil trying to keep me from praying, that thought actually betghezny, and gives me a push to get up. i feel like if i didn't then he won. and yes i do believe very strongly that there is a evilpresence trying to influence me,not my nafs. why would my nafs want me to not pray so badly? usually when the nafs advises evil it usually has a reason and is out of weakness. these things like the fajr prayer have no nafs base i think.

6/07/2005 12:17:00 pm  
Blogger haal said...

I think you are missing the point Doshar. (oh, I think with the D. Mae meant Dahlia not you)

I dont think Mae was defending the existence or the non-existence of Satan--more global than that. All she is saying is the various levels of the 'waswasa' that keeps you away from God and Remembering him; the various states.....

Inna al-nafs la'amara belsou'ih. Could just say that 'satan' is amar belsou'ih.

6/07/2005 12:32:00 pm  
Blogger Mohamed said...

That doesn't work with all people Doshar. Yes that fajr thing happened to me, but I didn't think it was Satan that was the reason. I just thought I was a miserable weak person, who should come out of the slum and stay awake to pray that fajr since I want to. If I thought Satan was the reason for my weakness, I'd probably let him win and get it over with (so that he gets off my case). But the problem is with me, my screwed up self, I gotta work on fixing that. Ever thought like that?!

6/07/2005 12:32:00 pm  
Anonymous Mae said...

Satan or no satan.... does it really matter? What is important is for us to take full responsibility of our actions.
Attempt to have a fresh look at the old symbols and stories. Endless dialogue about who 'waswis' and what not. Why is it so important.

6/07/2005 12:37:00 pm  
Blogger Mohamed said...

Bezzaaabt.. agree ya Maeyooy :) And that is what our sacred text says. Everyone will be judged for his/her actions, no excuses ba'a, Satan walla ya7zanoon. Why are we concerning ourselves so much with how tall Satan is.

6/07/2005 12:43:00 pm  
Anonymous Mae said...

Ask Dahlia....and her ' ' approach to everything. She dragged us all to weird stuff. Please, Dahlia cool off before replying, or read a page or two. Erhamou maan fee al-ard yarhamakoum maaan fee al sama'. And please please don't ever think of making du'a for me.

6/07/2005 12:52:00 pm  
Blogger doshar said...

mohamed, this is to you. i was sad when you said " i would let him win to get it over with". no i am not saying there is any excuse to anything we do and we will be questioned regardless of the source or influence. and you are saying that you are weak and that is your problem. yes it may be. and that is why only you can help yourself, but God is el mosta3an in all omour even when fighting ourselves. plz don't think of yourself like that. it doesn't get over with, it just gets worse.

you have the strenght inside you to help yourself, against your inner and outer demons. and you do need help, every one does. there is no 3eib in asking God for help. there is the best honour. why did God teach us in quran el iste3aza min el shaitan you think? and el do3aa? God has given us the way in everything and the beginnning is the do3aa. we all need do3aa.

by the way my real name is doaa. they say every person has some naseeb from his name and in the past 2 years i have learnt to really love doaa (the prayer azdy not myself:) ) and i swear to God it works like you wouldn't believe it.

i ahve been a through a very tough time in the last 2 years and i had no way out in front of me, then i thought this is something no one can fix but God, and i started enjoying the doaa. and everytime i ask God for something and he gives it to me it makes me so happy . not because of the thing God gave me as much as the feeling that He is close and loves us and i feel regret for all the years when iwas not very merakkeza in this love. i feel like i missed out on so much. anyway, it didn't happen overnight, but when you ask God to help you he will help. he helps so much you cannot imagine.

i am sorry to go on and on like this but i just became so emotional right now. it is just it is such a great feeling i wish i can share it with everyone and i wish all of you can feel it.mish azdy to preach ya haal, i genuinely feel like that and really really wish more people can too because it os so wonderful!!

6/07/2005 01:44:00 pm  
Blogger doshar said...

btw, i noticed everybody is home. how come? i thought nobody would be online now in the miidle of the day in the middle of the week? are you guys college students who are studying?

6/07/2005 01:47:00 pm  
Blogger haal said...

Thanks Doshar for the sharing. I apperciate it actually.

6/07/2005 02:07:00 pm  
Blogger Mohamed said...

Do'aa, I actually thank you for your advise. I never mind genuine advise. But I think I'm ready to go kill myself now.

Seriously, your advise is abit irrelevant. I never said I wouldn't ask for God's help. I'm not that arrogant wal7amdulillah.

My point was (which you obviously didn't get), people fight their fights for different reasons. You want to be competitive with the Shaytan, I want to better myself for myself's sake. Simple.

PS. I have an assignment about blogs and blogging commenters for my religion class that I have to hand in tomorrow morning. All your comments here will be included.

6/07/2005 02:07:00 pm  
Blogger haal said...

Can I get a copy of this assignment after you finish it. I promsie I will change the names and the font.

6/07/2005 02:13:00 pm  
Blogger Alina said...

Hiduism, Buddhism, Taoism...
Just needed to mention these here to feel better!
I donno why, but I guess any practicing believer of these religions would have felt bad reading these comments and not finding them stated, especially after Dallula said there were 3 major religions:)) Oh, and not to forget all the African beliefs...

"all Moslems are superior in the sense of being ONE BIG STEP AHEAD OF JEWS AND CHRISTIANS in terms of belief not humanity" - this I will take personal though...Really, dallula???How come?I recomend a South Park episode according to which only Mormons go to heaven (oh, and Saddam Hussein because the devil couldn't stand him anymore):))
I think I am one huge step ahead of you because I simply believe in one great, caring, loving, all-knowing God whose name is really not important and I don't think I'm better than others who believe in God, however they might choose to call Him. Oh, yeah, did I mention I was Christian???...There's this idea I found in a Hindu book: God is not Muslim, Christian or any other religion. God simply exists, only people have religions. Think about that for a reason...

I will use a Paulo Coelho quote (Maktub is the book) for closure: "Each person approaches God in his own way: some with certainty, some with denial and some with doubt". The key word for Dallula would be GOD as in "NOT A CERTAIN RELIGION"!!!

6/07/2005 03:27:00 pm  
Blogger haal said...

Well put Kayla. Really. Thank you.

Please dont take anything personal. I persoanlly dont care about your religion or anyone's religion. Who are you inside is what matters to me.

GOD as in "NOT A CERTAIN RELIGION"!!! Love this one.

6/07/2005 04:06:00 pm  
Blogger Alina said...

Thanx, Haal! I already knew you had a different opinion, don't worry!

6/07/2005 04:19:00 pm  
Blogger Dalulla said...

kayala Vincent .. hmm, well this discussion was not meant for people of other religions at least where i am concerned.

I was speaking in terms of religions sent by God, the ones that are known to most people as the ones i mentioned i.e Jewism, Christianity and Islam..

And again, no offense, but i do not acknowledge any other religions as "divine" except for the Ones i mentioned earlier.
This does not mean i have an apathy towards the followers, since i do not deal with people according to what religion they follow just like haal mentioned.

But here the subject was not intended for attack on this and that religion, it was mainly a discussion regarding an issue in Isalm. So i don't get it, why would other people feel offended about an issue that does not concern them. And yes, I would still say I am a step ahead... what insult is this to you as a christian???
As a moslem, I believe in all three religions, and i acknowledge them and respect them. you believe in one or two, does that not make me ahead? Even by common sense which is more? 1? 2?? or 3???

I never came near other religions in this discussion except when haal brought it up...

Excuse my ignorance, but i did not understand what you meant by: God as in "Not a certain Relgion", could u kindly elaborate.

6/07/2005 07:13:00 pm  
Anonymous Mae said...

'you believe in one or two, does that not make me ahead? Even by common sense which is more? 1? 2?? or 3?'

Eih el bateekh dah. What are you talking about Dalulla? Please, tell me that you are joking and didnt meant what you just said. This is really 'silly', no offense intended.

I was just talking to a friend of mine re/ this blog discussion and was just so sad, upset that you are talking like this. I am really looking forward to the time when you make a decent, well-thought comment that tickles the mind or the heart or anything. You really surprise me, to say the least.

6/07/2005 09:04:00 pm  
Blogger haal said...

Dalulla, I think you need to explain to us this 'one step ahead' idea not because the Coran and hadith said it (this we partially get) but in the sense of how Islam as a religion completed the rest of the religions. See a direct question, focus on it and we are waiting for the answer. I really want to know.

6/07/2005 11:14:00 pm  
Blogger Dalulla said...

bateekh is one of my favorite fruits.. too bad i haven't had any lately..
but don't you think that is way besides the point?
What has bateekh got to do with such an important issue Mae? Please..

And no Mae, sorry to disspoint you, but I am not joking at all. When it comes to religion, no jokes, no mockery, no nothing but respect.

I haven't stated much of personal opinions in comparison to Facts aided by the common Moslem faith. Balash ana , print this out and take it to a well respected sheikh, the whole issue and check out what they will have to say.

Believe me I am sadder than you Mae. Don't think i am enjoying this. And tell me why are you and your friend so sad i am talking like this? tell me please.

Decent??? Is the Quraan and hadeeth and Islamic teachings not decent enough for you all? Again where the bit about one, two and three are concerned, i will ralate to the Prophet's hadeeth saying "Al yawm AKMALTO LAKOM (to mankind) Dinakom Wa'atmamtu 3alikom ne3maty"

And Islam is al din al mokamel to all earlier ones. Also a common moslem belief.

Or do you not believe in the prophets ahadeeth despite the Verse in the Quraan that says, "Wama Yantiqu 3an el hawa, ma howa ila wa7youn you7a"???

Well, marvel me please..

6/07/2005 11:19:00 pm  
Blogger haal said...

Well, I still think that everything you say is beside the point. I am just asking you to tell us 'why do you think Islam is the best religion? Simple, right? With all the due respect to the Coran and Hadith and Prophet, just tell us, your humble opinion. We agree that the sources said that, but why you think this way? Why? Just answer the 'why' question. Balash better than other religion part. JUST WHY DO YOU THINK ISLAM IS THE DEEN MUKAMEL? Please don't use any islamic sources. Just your personal opinion.

6/07/2005 11:28:00 pm  
Anonymous Mae said...

'And tell me why are you and your friend so sad i am talking like this?'
I personally just think that the way you speak, and the way you are unable to develop a thoughtful argument that shows me that you 'think' about what you say is a mere indication of a narrow-minded, scared, arrogant person who just repeats what people tell her without taking one second to grasp the real meaning of things. All you did so far, and I believe will continue to do, is repeating yourself over and over without saying anything important.

As Haal was asking you, do tell us your opinion. No matter how your opinion will be, we will respect it because we know that you took a moment and responded.

I can't hide that this 1,2,3 was a joke to me. Original I must admit.. but silly and way over!

'Al yawm AKMALTO LAKOM (to mankind) Dinakom Wa'atmamtu 3alikom ne3maty" '
What do you think was lacking in other religions that Islam completed? Did you ever think about that?
Not sure why you took this statment of the prophet to make it an argument that Islam completed the other religions. As far as I know, this statment was meant for the muslims and how the prophet completed for them 'this' religion. Correct me if I am wrong.

Mohamed, I think you have a great insight into this muslim-one step ahead issue. I would love if you share it.

Ah, btw, your comment about Bateekh took way too much space... as usual you choose to hammer on trivial stuff.

6/07/2005 11:47:00 pm  
Blogger Mohamed said...

Mae, get me out of this we7yatek. The whole thing is not making any sense besara7a. You're all going on in circles, but seems you're all enjoying it too much! None of you will convince the other, nor see the other's point of view, so I think its wise to end this here, and move on to the next post.

6/08/2005 01:17:00 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dahlia is going in circles. Well, we posted the questions. She better provide a direct answer to the questions, otherwise, we will remain silent. Deal?

6/08/2005 01:24:00 am  
Blogger haal said...

THis was me. Haal

6/08/2005 01:25:00 am  
Blogger doshar said...

dear all, i haven't read any comments since yesterday and this morning i was literally monhara at the way things have gone.

i really think that some of you are negating other opinions for the sake of disagreeing with the person who posted them we khalas. i believe objectivity has been a bit lost. and therefore the conversation is obsolete

6/08/2005 09:11:00 am  
Blogger doshar said...

to Kayla, I apologize for any transgression from any Moslem as a Moslem. this is not what was intended by dallula I think.

each person has the right to follow whatever religion they follow.

anyway this is for haal and mae and Moslems in general,

you were asking why Moslems should believe that Islam is the mokamel deen? and said that God is not in one religion?

as we said, faith in any sense of the word means believing something without having to have it explained in logical reasons. although there are many but I am not qualified to do that because I am not a da3eya

if a mother tells her 5 year old that the electricity is an ouchie and don't go there, usually the kids (most kids with some sense at least) would know that what their mom said was true, without asking to see the voltage and the reasoning. this is a methal that doesn't exactly apply but you know what I mean.

the blessing of faith that you and we have in believing has given us the liberty (yes the liberty) to believe without having scientific evidence.

this is the ne3ma of faith, you believe what God says with no argument. we don't need a reason, we just need for God to tell us, so asking dalia to tell you a reason that is not from Islamic source is not feasible.

it is a feasible argument of course from someone who does not believe in Islam. they of course need conviction. and Islamic verses are not the way to go, because it doesn't mean anything to them.
in that case, la dalia, wala ana wala anyone in this conversation is qualified to answer.

it takes a big responsibility to ed30 non Moslems li Islam because if you are not ready you will bel3aks, give Islam a bad image.

dalia was talking to you as a Moslem to a Moslem. you have the faith el hamdo li Allah in God and Islam. so she knows that you believe and that is enough for you.

Islam is not one step ahead of the other religions by the way. They are not in a race.
religion is “THE RELIGION3END Allah”. religion is not like a club or party that we can follow according to our desire. We believe in all divine religions but follow only one

we have but one master, he is God, He has told us to follow Islam and any other religion is not going to be accepted from them on judgment day. . simple as that, there are lot of verses in quran about this, and I believe them blindly haal, with no logical reasoning, I simply believe because el hamdo li Allah faith can give you that option

it is not a race , it is about salvation, on judgment day there is no in between we are either from ahl el yamin or ahl el shemal wa al 3eyazo bi Allah

I know that this may be a bit offensive to other religions, I am sorry if I offended anyone but don't be. this is simply our belief. I wish that everyone would be Moslem for the sake of their salvation.

by the way to mai, "al youm akmalto lakom deenokom" is not a hadith like you thought, it is a verse in quran.

to Moslems, that is all they need to know.
for non-Moslems, I apologize but I am not qualified to argue religion with you.

it is not that we are ahead, it is that we believe that our religion is right and that is why we follow it.
there is no better in religions yagama3a, it is an all or none rule. you are either on the right religion or not, simple as that.

6/08/2005 10:15:00 am  
Anonymous Mae said...

I didnt say that it 'akmalt lakoum denakoum' is a hadith. It is in khutbet al-wada3 after the piligirimage--something the Shi'a would refre to as Ghadir Khum.

I dont really think it is a verse in Coran. I am positive unless you provide me with the refrence.

6/08/2005 10:20:00 am  
Blogger Alina said...

"we have but one master, he is God, He has told us to follow Islam and any other religion is not going to be accepted from them on judgment day" - Well, if you replace the word Islam here with Christinity or the Bible, you will get to something quite close to what Christian priests say. Weird, isn't it?

One thing, you guys, this conversation might be more for Muslims, but hey, you're not the only ones reading it...So, when any of you have the time, please translate verses and other phrases in Arabic (I think)!

You might see it as a Muslim issue, but considering discussions I heard between Christians, things are too much alike. Amazing!

6/08/2005 10:33:00 am  
Blogger Mohamed said...

Mae, here's the reference 5:3, and here's the tafseer.

PS. Sorry Kayla if this is in Arabic, but here's the English semi-translation

6/08/2005 10:39:00 am  
Blogger Alina said...

Thanx a lot, Mohamed!

6/08/2005 10:48:00 am  
Anonymous Mae said...

Thanks Mohamed.

ه معنى الإيمان بهذا الخبر إلى معنى التصديق والإقرار باللسان ; لأن ذلك معنى الإيمان عند العرب , ووجه معنى الإسلام إلى استسلام القلب وخضوعه لله بالتوحيد , وانقياد الجسد له بالطاعة فيما أمر ونهى , فلذلك قيل للإسلام

I find this a great definition of Islam.

6/08/2005 10:54:00 am  
Blogger Dalulla said...

haal would u mind if i published a post regarding your question to me about why i think islam is al din al mokamel?

I will not post it till you tell me whether you mind or not? I might not at all, but i am thinking of posting. so please tell me ur opinion.

6/11/2005 03:44:00 am  
Blogger Dalulla said...

I meant using your question that is, and i might need to use some of the comments in here.

6/11/2005 03:45:00 am  
Blogger haal said...

post whatever you like.

6/11/2005 09:50:00 am  
Blogger Dalulla said...

thank you.

6/11/2005 01:38:00 pm  
Blogger sara said...

hi shabab...i'm at work now,i was searching on smth on google and opened ur page ,i really enjoyed reading some of ur comments and would like to join ur discussion...some of ur thoughts are really what i've been thinking of lately...Glad to join the group:)

3/24/2006 01:49:00 pm  
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12/16/2006 02:52:00 am  

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