21 Apr 2005


The question of the day. Of today especifically. It happens on different level, and with two different situations. Completely different? Well, apparently yes, but in essence I would dare No. Similar. All revolve around an everlasting issue with ourselves.

The first issue, a blog related issue, that accompanied me through my 45 minutes drive to the Italian Club. Until I met Z. and the group. I might talk about it someother time. Dont feel it is time yet. At least today. Enough to say, it got me thinking here.

The second issue was Z.'s friends whom I met tonight. Very nice group, yet very different. Famous, high class, active people of the Egyptian society. Age varies. There was A. and his wife I., E. and his daughter D., Prof. E. and his wife M., H., S., Z. and myself. Large group. Ages varies from 50 to 17. Z., S. and myself are the youngest people, but age is not at all an issue with our group. We share the same spirit, passion to explore. Explore with a big E. A readiness to go into any topics preferrably (religion, politics, community)--to which I always think religion is the core issue, the rest are just pictures.

E. is an existenalist. A. is an atheist. Prof. E and M. are agnostics. Z. and S. are just exploring. Not quite one or the other. I just sometimes get worried about Z. for mingling too much with E. E. can be very influencial and intimidating, but to me he doesnt make sense. He just uses his body language, charismatic character, excellent communicating skills to influence how other see things. Very dangerous. Z. at this initial stage of 'fun' and 'excitement' of messing up with issues that for so long remained major taboos to him, and to 90% of muslims. (I will speak about all that someother time).

However, my point of writing this post tonight is one nagging question: What's next. After listening to almost 3 hours of them talking about how God doesnt exist, of negation of the Coran, the continous attack on prophets, I said to myself, what's next. I mean, if all what we have been raised to believe in are all false, then what? What can we do now. How can we proceed from there after this discovery? What are we after anyways? What are we searching for, chasing what?

P.S. I am realizing that I am not comfortable seeing Z. drinks! For some reason it annoys me. I see it as very superficial if he thinkst that drinking, eating ham, casually kissing and touching our female firends are a pre-requisite of the 'searching' stage. I might be open, but I dont have this in my 'openess' list. I wonder what is there?


Anonymous Anonymous said...


4/21/2005 09:28:00 am  
Anonymous Mohamed said...

Z. sounds like a pretty cool person with lots of interesting friends. Maybe I wouldn't mind being engaged to him myself! (well, that's not true). But to be honest, I can't compete with such cooleness.

You. You seem to be open minded, searching, and questioning as well. But you have a core inside you, a religious one I blieve that you will lose hanging around too much with such people. Isn't there a way to balance it abit, find another group that talks about God's existance, the relevance of the Coran, and the importance of the prophets? One night with those, and the other with those? Or, I guess there's an abundance of those 'believers' in Egypt that it doesn't make it cool. Oh, well.

But you're still holding back! not drinking, not open for kissing with your male friends. But things evolve. So good luck.

About that other What's Next. I say if you share a passion to explore with a big E, then what's holding you!

[That thing you did was smart. No means for me to respond!!]

4/21/2005 09:57:00 am  
Blogger haal said...

We just hide behind our friends at time, Mo.

Right, I am searching and I do have a religious core. Strong one actually. I enjoy the contradiction between my 2 extreme attitudes. Infact, I am studying Islamic sciences at an institute in cairo. Traditional school. At the same time, I read a lot to orientalists. Doing this since 1998. So nothing is holding me. On the contrary, I do feel I have a full inside and that's why although hanging with these people for 3 years, they did nothing to me other than making me insist to go deeper.

Y/N? you never answered

4/21/2005 10:16:00 am  
Anonymous Mohamed said...

Jeesh, I checked out that institute for myself earlier this year!

No baby, No.

[Check out my new post in a few minutes.]

4/21/2005 10:55:00 am  
Anonymous Mohamed said...

BTW, I said No, not H! I guess you made up your mind.

4/21/2005 11:29:00 am  
Anonymous Helme said...

Have you assumed that your friends are correct? Is it?

I won't lecture you on my own personal journey because I've had enough of 'talking.'

My honest, honest belief was something I said to you earlier: to have fiath, you need to lose it.

I'd recommend that you keep on chasing that all elusive answer, keep 'searching.' People who say they know the answer are - in my opinion - airheads.

4/21/2005 02:38:00 pm  
Anonymous Haal said...

'To have faith, you need to lose it', you said it to Mo. But I totally agree with you.

I dont consider them right or wrong. In fact, the judgement is not important. Everyone has his own version of his truth, needs and Exploration. As long as everyone is Exploring and thinking, then it is healthy.

Everyone has his own state, and in that we are different.

4/21/2005 02:57:00 pm  
Anonymous Mohamed said...

Yes Hellme, you said it to me not Haal. Shouldn't mix between the two of us --we're not one yet! Good memory Haal.

We shouldn't judge them (right or wrong), as long as they are genuine, and keen for the 'truth'. That's why I didn't suggest that you stop seeing them, but to find another group to balance things out. But you're obviously doing the 'right' thing already. You're getting more interesting everyday.

4/21/2005 05:21:00 pm  
Anonymous Haal said...

Yes, Mohamed, genuine is really very important. I dont want to pass a judgement on my friends, but I always tell Z. that start their exploration as a 'reaction' to something happened to them--which is true knowing their personal history. And that our mission shouldnt stop at 'revenging' from our personal problems or wounds, but to extend to something meaningful. To go beyond our wounds, disappointments and fear.

Although, I know that Z.'s intention is good. I have to keep rechecking the 'why' of doing things because we can be easily lost in the midst of all this 'intellectual, logic, modern' talk.

Maybe you, and Hellme should come to the IC one of these days...if you dont mind sitting with people who drink and truly speak their state. Very nice people, all very helpful to the community.

4/21/2005 05:54:00 pm  
Anonymous Mohamed said...

I don't mind (as long as you won't be there ;). I hope they don't pass judgements on people. This discussion is getting a little too deep for me though.

4/21/2005 06:41:00 pm  
Anonymous Hellme said...

You've both got black backgrounds goddamit.

I've partook and been part of more of those meets than I care to remember (in fact, I still have 'em).

4/21/2005 07:29:00 pm  
Anonymous Haal said...

Yes, Hellme, they are fun discussions actually. I wont claime that I would participate all the time, or enjoy it, but it just get me thinking.

Mohamed, yes they are very nice people. They dont pass judgements on anyone. Each has his own different opinion and they just talk and at the end, laugh and enjoy the friendship. Very fun. Honest. Not pretending.

4/21/2005 07:35:00 pm  
Anonymous Mohamed said...

Haal (and Hellme), if I may, I'd like to encourage you to read and recommend this book to your friendly group: Islam Between East and West, by Ali Izetbegovic. Begovic is a great intellectual and politician, and the book is very good, mostly philosophical and aimed at existenalists/agnostics/atheists.

I've read half way through the book, and the guy hasn't started talking about Islam yet! I wanted and am planning to blog about it, its just taking me forever to finish it!

4/22/2005 12:40:00 am  
Anonymous Haal said...

It is a wonderful book, I hear. I wanted to get it but I couldnt find it at AUC library. Not sure where to get it.

Looking forward to reading your blog. Do finish it. Is this the same book you talked about attempting to read it in one of your comments! If so, then u are a real slow reader.

4/22/2005 09:29:00 am  
Anonymous Mohamed said...

It is a wonderful book. I think the only way to get it is from me! ;) (my copy is photocopied! and you can't even get it from amazon).

I am a damn slow reader, when I read!

No, the other book was ElMeseiry's new series about Modernity. But I know I'll never finish those, three books with lots of paper!

Jeesh, you remember every comment in my blog! Scary.

4/22/2005 09:43:00 am  
Blogger haal said...

Oh no. I just have a strong memory (this what people tell me). I remember things, and details. Photographic memory on some level. (Self praise)

So photocopied? hmm... Probably will have to meet then! :)
Elmessiry, modernity? Interesting.

4/22/2005 09:49:00 am  

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