10 Apr 2005

TIPPING POINT

To what extent should someone care about his/her partner's past experiences?! Not sure if this is a type of question where the answers should be the same for all people, regardless of their culture and mentality?

For me, maybe I am narrow-minded, old style, but my answer will be Yes, past experiences are important. Girls and guys past experiences. No difference.

This question was brought up during breakfast on friday with A and H. H. was claiming that the history of his future wife is not by any means important. Whatever she did is totally hers. What's important to him is her behaviour after they commit to one another.

I was curious to know to what extend was he willing to ignore past experiences? 'Absolute extend. No limits.' I have to make sure I got the right answer, 'No limits, no limits?' I sounded a little stupid, 'Yes. NO LIMITS. Everything. But of course if her actions were done out of love and not just sleeping around with everyone'. ehm.

In his opinion, honesty and openess come first and are the basis for any successful relationship. The actions done in the past are not important, what is important is that she doesnt hide anything or he discover anything by chance. This is what he refused. Furthermore, it was our duty as 'intellectuals' to change this patriarchal society which slaughter women for the same actions men do. Why punish the women and not men as well. Push women to commit another crimes (refering to getting an abortion and an operation), thus participating in creating a dual society, based on cheating and lying.

My opinion: I think this dual society and ghesh wee tadless slogan big talks are all BS to my ears. If a girl did something the society doesnt approve, 1) she knows what she is doing, 2) she knows the consequences, 3) still chooses to go for it. Fine. Go do whatever, but be ready to face this society you dared to break its rules. And most important dont pretend you didnt know it is a patriarchal society, with man made rules, women took all the blame. You know that already. Face the blame you expected. And dont ever tell me, 'why shouldnt guys get the same blame?' Well, practically they should. But until we change our society's upbringing; some parents pride in his son's adventures.....we have to be practical, examin our own culture behaviours heritage, own ideas about who we are and what we really need, fill our selves with real confidence and real achievements not just fake ones to hide our spirit and soul impotency.

I am totally offtopic, I guess!!

maybe will elaborate later

9 Comments:

Blogger minesweeper76 said...

I guess it all depends on how the partner feels towards those past experiences. The real challenge is knowing what those feelings are.

4/09/2005 12:06:00 pm  
Anonymous Mohamed said...

Will wait for the elaboration before I speak.

4/09/2005 11:27:00 pm  
Anonymous Mohamed said...

I totally agree with H Haal. Agree on honesty and openness, agree that (personally) I'll accept her history, if it was done out of love, not sleeping around, and most importantly, that men should be looked at with the same standard as women, definetely. Its not BS. This talk is not to find excuses for women who do mistakes, definetely not, but it is to look at the men who do the same mistakes in exactly the same way.

You find a guy who sleeps around making big statements about how he'd never marry a girl who slept with someone before him! Well, if you did it yourself, you should accept it from your partner. "altayeboon leltayebat, walkhabeethoon lelkhabeethat".

4/10/2005 11:28:00 am  
Anonymous Haal said...

Does the coranic statement you put down there mean that those who sleep around end up marrying someone who slept around too....

I am for honesty and openess; men and women 'punished' equally regardless. But I still have issues with 'done out of love, unless not sleeping around..' this kind of statements. The throwing of a religion prohibition on gender issue or culture norm problem. By the way, what is the punishment for adultery in Islam! I wonder what happened to this woman in the islamic time. did she get married again, was she forgiven....?

4/10/2005 03:19:00 pm  
Anonymous Haal said...

and sure how islamic society regarded a man who commited the same action? I mean, does commiting adultery affect how 'society' look to this person?

4/10/2005 03:40:00 pm  
Anonymous Mohamed said...

Ok, you're mixing issues here.

My comment was not related to Islam, but I guess throwing in that verse, didn't help, eh :)

Regarding people sleeping around end up marrying each other, I'm not sure about that. The verse I refered to was not about sleeping around aslan (someone who sleeps around is not necessarily khabeeth). There is however another verse in suret elnoor, that I can't figure out exactly. It says something like, those who sleep around fall for those who sleep around.

What's Islam's punishment for men and women who commit adultry? As far as I know, the exact same punishment for either gender.

Now, what is Islam's view about say a man who gets married to someone and realizes that she's not a virgin (slept with someone before him outside of marriage). The fatwa I heard is that he has the right to a divorce, however, it is preferred that he keeps the marriage going, "yostor 3aleiha", and does not look down at her because of that --if he can (otherwise divorce).

The 'done out of love, unless not sleeping around..' has nothing to do with Islam, this is my personal view of the issue. What I would accept. Totally personal. Everyone has his reasons.

4/10/2005 04:01:00 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Our bodies were designed to live until we were 40. Therefore, we have desires at 12-13. How can one expect someone to control those desire for 20 years? What are the psychological implications of dealing with the guilt that is necessary to control such feelings?

These are the important questions. Not what is "right" and "wrong" based on a code of conduct that was written when our lifespan was half what it is and our reproductive decisions were made by our parents.

4/11/2005 12:32:00 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am personally super surprised why guys are becoming more flexible regarding these issues. I wonder why? will this new attitude map where we are going with our society.

But sure everyone has his reasons?

4/11/2005 09:37:00 am  
Blogger The Don ® said...

Very interesting, I was working on an entry to post tomorrow morning, I still need to go over few things before releasing it in to public, I thought maybe you would like to read it.. it has a similar spirit as your wonderment here..

Please join if you would like tomorrow and read it.. Thanks.. :)

4/11/2005 11:02:00 pm  

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