16 Aug 2005


'Umar B. Khatab, a renowned, prominent figure in the Islamic history, so admired by many muslims, me included for sure. Growing up, he was my favourite. Ranking him immediately after the prophet, despite Abu-Bakr's sweet kindness, but it is just that Umar's character was very close to what I like. This strenght, dareness, rebellious attitude all dissolving in a tremendous tenderness, attracted me. Right there. This contradiction. Beautiful. He indeed is a unique figure. However, to what degree was he right when tampering with the ahkam that were set by the prophet? Was he an innovative, brainer, an example to adapting the laws set by the Prophet to the current conditions? or did he open the door wide open for anyone to change as he pleases? Was his innovative nature and tailored judging manipulated by history especially during the Ummayad dynasty and used in a corrupted way? Was 'Umar, the law maker, betrayed by history?


Blogger Alina said...

Seems I've been missing a lot of action here! Will catch up tonight. Promise! Please translate the message, pretty please, cherry On top!

8/17/2005 09:46:00 am  
Blogger required said...

What do you expect from a man taught by prophet Mohamed DIRECTLY? and when Quran verses came down to favor Umar's opinions, like not to take prisoners in the first GHAZWA, and not to pray forgivness for Monafikeen (hypocrates)...

There can't be another Umar, unless it was a miracle from Alaah, and judging from all the sins Muslims are committing nowadays, we do not deserve a miracle, maybe another Tsunami !

8/17/2005 09:59:00 am  
Blogger haal said...

I dont think that 'Umar was a 'miracle'. He was just able to use both his brain and heart efficiently. Found a good balance there, and thus the fountain flows.

Neither miracles or tsunami's change things. They might act as a reminders, but what we need is self-changing awareness.

8/17/2005 10:09:00 am  
Blogger Al Sharief said...

"Pure Leadership", Before, During, & After the Prophet.

8/17/2005 11:50:00 pm  
Blogger haal said...

what do you mean with him 'pure leadership' and dont u think that he could have overshadowed the prophet himself.

I actually take on him some tampering with the laws the prophet had decided. Raising the Hadd of wine drinking, Mut'a marriage and Hajj, he even stopped the punishment of cutting the hand of the theif during a certain time... dont really get it. There are reasons for course, but my point is, if the prophet said something, why someone invent something else. BTW, there were lots of debates during Umar's time when he changed in these ahkam.

8/18/2005 12:40:00 am  
Blogger doshar said...

maybe it was accepted by umar, because his credibility and sound judgement were already acredited in the days of the Prophet, as bugmenot said, there were situations that the prophet pbuh and umar disagreed and Allah SWT made it clear that umar's opinion is correct.

also, it was known before hand that Umar was one of the mubashareen be el jannah, so people tend to feel he can't have strayed far off the right path.

and also some of the circumstances that were present with him were not present during the days of the prophet pbuh, ex. 3am el ramada, when the Hadd was removed for stealing, this situation had not occured during the days of the prophet pbuh, and therefore he was forced to be flexible and improvise what he thought Allah would approve of. he egtahad and took a chance. he was frightened that he was wrong all throughout his khilafa though, he was even scared that he might be one of the munafikeen!!

and when trying to limit the dowry in marriage, a woman stood up to him and recited a verse in Quran that cited the Dowry as large as a quintar, and he immediately rettracted it and said yes you are right, i am wrong.

One of the things that I love about him, was his humility that increased so much AFTER he became the Khalifa of the muslims. his ego never stood in the way of doing what is right.

He is one of my favorites fe3lan. Wish his leadership could be learnt from more.

8/18/2005 11:19:00 am  
Blogger haal said...

'...it was known before hand that Umar was one of the mubashareen be el jannah......feel he can't have strayed far off the right path'

Well, i dont like this to be part of the argument, because it proves nothing when it comes to political and leadership judgements of these people. 2 of the Mubashareen actually fought one another during the battle of the camel.

'when the Hadd was removed for stealing, this situation had not occured during the days of the prophet pbuh'

But dont you see that abrogating/modifying a NASS saree7 in the Coran is too big of an action. It is not that a sunna that is circumstantial/take it or leave it/ is modified, but an actual Coranic order. So what I am saying, how accurate was Umar right/wrong when doing that.

'he was forced to be flexible and improvise what he thought Allah would approve of.'
NO no, please... Improvise! And how would he know that ALlah will do that, if the prophet didnt do it.

'he egtahad and took a chance'
Ijtihad is not in a nass saree7.

8/18/2005 01:00:00 pm  
Blogger doshar said...

so what do you think? you think he was wrong?

8/18/2005 07:36:00 pm  
Blogger haal said...

It is not about he was right or wrong in his decision as much as, for me, looking into the issue of prevailing authority at that time. Strenght of Sunan....SUnat al-Rasoul, or SUnat Umar.....

8/18/2005 08:40:00 pm  

Post a Comment

<< Home